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[Music]

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this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

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spread

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hey guys ryan sprague here from

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somewhere in the skies and welcome to a

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special live stream version of the

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podcast this week we are going to be

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talking to graeme rendell who for some

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reason has not been on the show yet

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which is insane and we i definitely had

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to rectify that as soon as possible uh

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we're gonna be talking about all the

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latest news in the ufo world uh we're

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gonna dig deep into the calvin ufo

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incident which is one of my favorite

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things to talk about and graham knows

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more than a lot of people about this so

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we're gonna get his thoughts and

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opinions on that his thoughts and

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opinions on all the latest ufo news

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including some file releases um some

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litigious

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goings on in the ufo world uh what else

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is new and uh a whole lot more and we

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also have with us of course my co-pilot

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for the episode chrissy newton joining

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us as well um but before we do that we

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were supposed to have andy from that ufo

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podcast joining us tonight unfortunately

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he is under the weather so we do want to

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send him our very best to get well soon

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uh he was very you know bummed that he

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couldn't make it tonight but we'll make

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up for it soon with a somewhere in the

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skies that ufo podcast crossover but

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without further ado let's bring them in

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we have with us chrissy newton and

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graham welcome to the show guys

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hello hello

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this is going to be fun i mean we kind

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of just threw this together we got some

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stuff to talk about it's going to be

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super laid back um anyone in the chat

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feel free uh super chat's open if you

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want to ask graham some questions

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tonight or me or chrissy please feel

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free um you can help support the show

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through the super sad super chat super

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stickers and everything in between um

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but yeah grim before we even get to ufo

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stuff you just had a mini reunion i'll

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bait for about 30 seconds with some of

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your friends over there at uap media

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you gotta tell me man what was that all

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about i caught it on twitter um tell us

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a little about this little reunion you

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had well it's a stupid thing really

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because we were talking about this on uh

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priscilla stone's show on saturday night

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on the uap book club and it just so

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happened that where i live in

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northumberland in northern england it's

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on the main railway line from

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down london up into scotland and vinnie

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and dan

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who are part of uap media were going to

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be part of a documentary of putting

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together a documentary in scotland and

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they were traveling effectively past

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where i live

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and the train happened to stop at one of

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the stations near where i live and i

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knew what time of day it was i was in

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the area and i said look guys i'll be

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there if you want to get off the train

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say hello for 30 seconds how long it is

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because that's how long the train stops

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for sort of thing maybe a minute you

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sort of thing um we'll have a quick you

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know and then he said yeah we'll take

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we'll take some pictures because it's

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all part of the experience and they're

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up for you know a daft thing like that

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and i i'm quite spontaneous occasionally

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with these kind of crazy little notions

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so we'll put it together uh over the

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course of the morning and um

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on my outback i'd work out when the

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train was coming in so i happened to be

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right at the time um they told me the

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coach they were in so i knew where to

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stand on the platform

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except the train company had swept they

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swapped the coaches around for some

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reason so i was in complete the wrong

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place that's why i was running down the

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platform to make sure i was at the right

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place it was all crazy it was all kind

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of spur-of-the-moment thing it was you

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know just a kind of daft carry-on um

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and we're all crazy anyway so yeah it

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but it it played well on social media so

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you know it gave people a bit of a laugh

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and when people think when i say things

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like this off the cuff people just think

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you actually great

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i know it's so cool that you guys were

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able to like synchronize that and make

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it happen because it you know it's and

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i've met you in person which was an

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amazing experience but the fact of the

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matter is like between you me and

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chrissy we all live in different

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countries literally different countries

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and um and rarely get to meet so getting

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that kind of like you know inside um

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you know inside i guess perspective of

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seeing you guys meet up and hug and like

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you know do those little things it

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really makes me feel like i'm there with

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you so i love stuff like that because

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covid has like

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made people a part and they can't work

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together now you know well back then and

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you couldn't live together and you

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couldn't see friends and so that

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everything was done virtually and it was

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great being able to see the guys from

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uap media last october and then meeting

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you and meeting lou because those were

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things we couldn't do beforehand so it

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was wonderful um but it actually that

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doesn't seem like it almost seems like

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five minutes ago though you know i was

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sitting around the bar table with you

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ryan you know

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stories and all the rest of it it was it

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was a fun night

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it was a fun it was a little too fun of

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a night i'm not gonna lie i think i had

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a misty time experience after a few of

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those uh a few of those whiskies with

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you guys but um no that was and i was

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nervous about that i'm like i'm meeting

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up with a bunch of these british people

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um i don't know what's gonna happen i

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honestly don't know what's gonna happen

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but you guys were so hospitable and um

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made me feel at home and we had a great

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time we really really did um and one of

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the things you and i talked about around

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the uh the bar there was the calvin ufo

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incident yeah um i'm just teasing that

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now we'll get into it in a little bit um

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but that was a lot of fun um christopher

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plane is here i do want to give some of

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these guys a shout out

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jason sdk jesse aaron desario is here

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good day good day

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um

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let's see jason faye i said esmerelda

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thank you guys thank you everyone for

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being here um again if you want to ask

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any questions feel free to put them in

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the chat there we'll get to them later

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in the show

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i'm going to meet christopher plane and

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i'm going to bop him on the nose for

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some things he said about me before

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no

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i've actually chris and i have hung out

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together too and uh

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chris is in uh in california so the

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first time i met chris i was like you

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are exactly the person that i would

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imagine on social media and then i've

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met through the debrief and it was yeah

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he's a special character he knows that

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yeah he's again he's a good guy yeah he

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really is i love him so is space

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oddities thank you for the super chat

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there man good morning brother this is

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gary hello gary thank you my man thank

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you so much for the the super chat there

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we appreciate that um well let's i guess

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guys dive into some of the news um yeah

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and i use the term current a little uh

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a little liberally here um some of them

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are very current but i do want to talk

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about because he's been a busy guy i

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haven't been able to get him on the show

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but that's john greenwald over at the

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black vault and um he recently um

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somewhat recently was able to obtain

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parts of the classified uap report which

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was very

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exciting and um very telling when we

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actually saw the pages it was exactly

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like stanton friedman has always said in

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his lectures like it's redacted beyond

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comprehension and there are literally

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pages completely blacked out but there

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were some small gems in that classified

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report that john kind of dug up um so i

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want to get your guys thoughts on that

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but before we do that

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i do have a brief video that john

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actually did with the hill here in the

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united states about this so if you don't

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mind i'm going to play that and then

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we'll get your guys comments on the

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other side is that cool sounds good

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awesome all right give me one sec here

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we go what's interesting is with the

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resources of the u.s military they

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couldn't they couldn't put them in those

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categories so you you you have those

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possible explanations but the military

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wasn't able to definitively say these

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fit into a classified platform or

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foreign adversary drone technology

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because you can admit that without

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blowing any classified secrets yet they

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weren't able to do it so it's a short

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list of what's left i mean the general

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public wants to know hey is this alien

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well of course you're not going to see

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that in the report nor do you uh but

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they didn't rule it out and they said

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that last year and this report

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solidifies that that you know that's

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that's on the short list of possible

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explanations in this document although

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discouraging that it is heavily redacted

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absolutely solidifies the secrecy around

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this phenomena whatever it is it likely

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has multiple explanations and ironically

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the report reflects that as well but it

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likely has multiple explanations but the

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bottom line is is is the military in the

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u.s government has a secret here and

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they don't want to tell the general

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public about it and you look at all

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these redactions and again although

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discouraging that in itself tells a

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story and when you really sit down and

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and digest the document

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some may theorize oh this is just about

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our classified system platforms that

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that detected whatever these craft are

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and you can see in certain areas yes

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that is likely the explanation for the

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redactions but when you really look at

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some of the other areas they don't want

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to tell you the capabilities of what

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they these uap are these mysterious

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unknown craft and the explanation to to

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that would not be classified in my

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opinion uh we know our systems can

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detect speeds can detect altitudes uh so

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that's that's not classified they won't

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tell you where uaps are flying or how

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fast i don't think that that should be

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classified yet it is another key section

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is what they look like uh they they they

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label it common shapes and then another

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area is uncommon shapes that's entirely

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redacted as well they won't even tell

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you the visual representation of what

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these craft look like so let's say we

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are dealing with a drone type of

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00:10:34,790 --> 00:10:32,240
technology well there's only so many

273
00:10:36,870 --> 00:10:34,800
shapes a drone can be and is that in

274
00:10:39,030 --> 00:10:36,880
itself without any identifying

275
00:10:39,990 --> 00:10:39,040
information on a on a diagram or a

276
00:10:41,990 --> 00:10:40,000
picture

277
00:10:44,790 --> 00:10:42,000
without any identifying information is

278
00:10:47,509 --> 00:10:44,800
that classified my answer would be no

279
00:10:50,550 --> 00:10:47,519
yet they won't tell you a single

280
00:10:53,350 --> 00:10:50,560
visual observation on what shape these

281
00:10:58,710 --> 00:10:53,360
are so again it really solidifies the

282
00:11:02,949 --> 00:11:00,470
right so

283
00:11:04,550 --> 00:11:02,959
i mean i think the shape thing is what

284
00:11:07,190 --> 00:11:04,560
people were really

285
00:11:08,870 --> 00:11:07,200
kind of um theorizing over and whatnot

286
00:11:11,190 --> 00:11:08,880
out of this new

287
00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:11,200
highly redacted thing but um yeah what

288
00:11:14,870 --> 00:11:12,480
did you guys think what were your

289
00:11:17,110 --> 00:11:14,880
initial thoughts when john said guess

290
00:11:19,990 --> 00:11:17,120
what guys i've got the classified report

291
00:11:21,750 --> 00:11:20,000
um and then when we actually see it it's

292
00:11:23,829 --> 00:11:21,760
like oh okay

293
00:11:26,230 --> 00:11:23,839
like some people were again excited some

294
00:11:28,870 --> 00:11:26,240
were deflated um but welcome to the

295
00:11:30,230 --> 00:11:28,880
world of ufos so yeah yeah graham what

296
00:11:31,829 --> 00:11:30,240
did you think when you first saw that

297
00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:31,839
the classified report had been made

298
00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:33,600
public well i noticed it took nine

299
00:11:36,389 --> 00:11:34,800
months for the information to come

300
00:11:38,630 --> 00:11:36,399
through because john i believe had put

301
00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:38,640
the request through at the end of june

302
00:11:43,110 --> 00:11:40,640
the 28th of june last year so that was

303
00:11:44,790 --> 00:11:43,120
just after the after the initial report

304
00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:44,800
the preliminary report came out so he

305
00:11:49,750 --> 00:11:47,519
was quick off the mark with that um

306
00:11:51,350 --> 00:11:49,760
seeing the redactions that's no real

307
00:11:53,110 --> 00:11:51,360
surprise i think to people who have been

308
00:11:55,269 --> 00:11:53,120
in this game for a long time

309
00:11:57,110 --> 00:11:55,279
you know the information comes out in

310
00:11:59,269 --> 00:11:57,120
drips and drabs and you're lucky if you

311
00:12:01,430 --> 00:11:59,279
get just that kind of breadcrumb if you

312
00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:01,440
like you know there's that little extra

313
00:12:04,949 --> 00:12:03,680
information that inches you towards

314
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:04,959
where you want to be but you're not

315
00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:07,040
getting there still so

316
00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:08,399
it's interesting the amount of

317
00:12:12,150 --> 00:12:10,000
information has come up but yes i agree

318
00:12:13,509 --> 00:12:12,160
with john about what he said why can't

319
00:12:15,269 --> 00:12:13,519
the release information about the

320
00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:15,279
altitudes why can't they release

321
00:12:19,750 --> 00:12:17,760
information about the shapes why is that

322
00:12:22,389 --> 00:12:19,760
still considered secret

323
00:12:24,230 --> 00:12:22,399
that that's you know quite puzzling i

324
00:12:25,590 --> 00:12:24,240
get why they're saying that they still

325
00:12:27,190 --> 00:12:25,600
can't release the information about the

326
00:12:29,030 --> 00:12:27,200
sensor platforms they're using to

327
00:12:30,870 --> 00:12:29,040
determine you know the information that

328
00:12:33,430 --> 00:12:30,880
they've got in the report but the rest

329
00:12:34,790 --> 00:12:33,440
of it just seems a bit weird um

330
00:12:36,230 --> 00:12:34,800
you know maybe somebody who knows much

331
00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:36,240
more about this can explain it because

332
00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:38,560
i'm a bit of a loss to work out like

333
00:12:42,790 --> 00:12:40,560
here's why they're still keeping that

334
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:42,800
information under wraps to say that you

335
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:44,800
know they're seeing you ap from well you

336
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:46,000
can fill in the blanks and you can try

337
00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:48,079
and work out what would be there and it

338
00:12:52,310 --> 00:12:49,360
looks from the altitudes that it could

339
00:12:53,829 --> 00:12:52,320
be as little as 100 feet up to several

340
00:12:55,829 --> 00:12:53,839
thousand you know tens of thousands of

341
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:55,839
feet why aren't they

342
00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:57,760
why does that need to be secret still i

343
00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:00,720
i really don't understand

344
00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:03,519
right right and i i agree with you like

345
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:05,760
there there are certain things that if

346
00:13:10,470 --> 00:13:07,440
they put it out there it could be very

347
00:13:13,030 --> 00:13:10,480
telling about um advanced aircraft of

348
00:13:14,870 --> 00:13:13,040
our own here in the united states and

349
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:14,880
again the

350
00:13:18,069 --> 00:13:16,720
and this is what has always kind of hurt

351
00:13:21,670 --> 00:13:18,079
me and chrissy i love your thoughts on

352
00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:21,680
this too um ever since people like

353
00:13:26,230 --> 00:13:24,320
elizondo and even the new york times

354
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:26,240
were saying these things like well it's

355
00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:28,720
definitely not russia or china the

356
00:13:35,990 --> 00:13:31,040
things that we're seeing i've always had

357
00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:36,000
a very hard time uh accepting that um

358
00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:38,000
i also have had a hard time accepting

359
00:13:43,350 --> 00:13:41,600
that it's not ours and a part of me

360
00:13:45,829 --> 00:13:43,360
wants to think the reason they're saying

361
00:13:48,069 --> 00:13:45,839
it's not russia it's not china it's also

362
00:13:50,470 --> 00:13:48,079
not ours in the united states that they

363
00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:50,480
want russia that they want china to

364
00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:51,360
think

365
00:13:56,069 --> 00:13:54,240
oh it's definitely the united states

366
00:13:59,110 --> 00:13:56,079
they're just not saying it is so we

367
00:14:00,949 --> 00:13:59,120
better be careful um what we do and you

368
00:14:03,509 --> 00:14:00,959
know where we poke and prod with these

369
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:03,519
sorts of black budget things or

370
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:05,600
surveillance drones or whatnot um again

371
00:14:10,230 --> 00:14:07,680
maybe i'm way off the mark on that but

372
00:14:11,509 --> 00:14:10,240
um i do think there is a

373
00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:11,519
very

374
00:14:14,829 --> 00:14:12,800
uh

375
00:14:17,910 --> 00:14:14,839
i don't even know how to put it a very

376
00:14:20,069 --> 00:14:17,920
um shadowy intelligence game going on

377
00:14:23,030 --> 00:14:20,079
here with with the way that the united

378
00:14:25,269 --> 00:14:23,040
states is portraying the ufo question in

379
00:14:27,670 --> 00:14:25,279
the media right now and how it goes to

380
00:14:29,509 --> 00:14:27,680
rival nations and whatnot so i don't

381
00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:29,519
know am i way off on this what do you

382
00:14:34,069 --> 00:14:31,440
guys think christine what do you think i

383
00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:34,079
agree with you i've had questions if

384
00:14:37,990 --> 00:14:36,000
you know we can't just believe that it's

385
00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:38,000
not foreign adversaries even though they

386
00:14:41,590 --> 00:14:39,680
keep telling us that they're not we've

387
00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:41,600
known disinformation campaigns

388
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:43,360
misinformation campaigns all of it has

389
00:14:47,670 --> 00:14:45,360
happened for so long

390
00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:47,680
why can't this be part of that you know

391
00:14:52,069 --> 00:14:50,160
and i'm still mindful for it too and we

392
00:14:53,509 --> 00:14:52,079
just keep looking at chinese technology

393
00:14:56,069 --> 00:14:53,519
that keeps increasing which is

394
00:14:59,110 --> 00:14:56,079
unbelievable the drone supremacy

395
00:15:01,590 --> 00:14:59,120
everything so i i'm i'm still on the

396
00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:01,600
same same wavelength as you ryan i'm not

397
00:15:06,389 --> 00:15:04,720
100 sure that it's not ours uh and also

398
00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:06,399
why can't it be both you know that

399
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:08,560
conversation isn't having had right now

400
00:15:12,550 --> 00:15:10,720
like why can't it be ufos and why can't

401
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:12,560
it be foreign adversaries and then

402
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:14,639
there'll be blurring of lines i can see

403
00:15:19,269 --> 00:15:16,399
that would make sense and when you're

404
00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:19,279
using media or you know the ufo

405
00:15:23,670 --> 00:15:21,680
community to help push information that

406
00:15:24,949 --> 00:15:23,680
might be that would be protecting let's

407
00:15:27,030 --> 00:15:24,959
say our own

408
00:15:28,069 --> 00:15:27,040
you know advanced technologies it it

409
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:28,079
would make sense even though you know

410
00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:29,680
you can't do that

411
00:15:34,629 --> 00:15:32,480
but i wouldn't be surprised so i think

412
00:15:36,230 --> 00:15:34,639
we still have to be mindful and be

413
00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:36,240
you know and keep looking to see if

414
00:15:39,990 --> 00:15:38,160
that's what the case is and you know who

415
00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:40,000
knows we might find out maybe 10 to 20

416
00:15:44,389 --> 00:15:42,240
years from down the road that maybe some

417
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:44,399
of that was our technology or foreign

418
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:46,240
adversaries we're in a very interesting

419
00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:48,240
time right now when it comes to yeah

420
00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:50,639
anything defense so yeah graham what do

421
00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:53,279
you think i i i think the um the us have

422
00:15:56,949 --> 00:15:54,959
a history of fielding advanced

423
00:15:59,110 --> 00:15:56,959
technology in in conflicts i mean

424
00:16:01,749 --> 00:15:59,120
certainly the stealth fighter was

425
00:16:04,710 --> 00:16:01,759
employed in panama in 1989 and then in

426
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:04,720
the gulf war in 91 so it's not as if

427
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:05,920
they you know they keep these things

428
00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:08,880
under wraps forever now i agree to some

429
00:16:12,949 --> 00:16:11,040
extent about you know possibly the us um

430
00:16:14,470 --> 00:16:12,959
intelligence and military communities

431
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:14,480
keeping things under wraps for various

432
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:16,880
reasons but also when you look at the

433
00:16:20,389 --> 00:16:18,240
russian drone technology that they're

434
00:16:21,829 --> 00:16:20,399
using in ukraine at the moment um and

435
00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:21,839
you look at some of the things on social

436
00:16:26,550 --> 00:16:24,000
media that the ukrainians have shot down

437
00:16:29,509 --> 00:16:26,560
um in fact today there was uh um some

438
00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:29,519
footage of a of an orlan 10 drone um

439
00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:31,360
that the ukrainians had shot down this

440
00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:33,360
is a russian um a reconnaissance

441
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:35,600
platform it's effectively a controlled

442
00:16:38,150 --> 00:16:36,480
aircraft

443
00:16:39,350 --> 00:16:38,160
um and it's nothing sophisticated it's

444
00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:39,360
something that you know some hobbyists

445
00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:41,279
in america could build out of carbon

446
00:16:46,949 --> 00:16:44,000
fiber strip put a piston engine on it

447
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:46,959
and it actually had a canon slr camera

448
00:16:49,749 --> 00:16:47,759
um

449
00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:49,759
with a fixed lens on it and that was

450
00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:51,680
it's basically that was its reconstance

451
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:54,000
uh capability and it had a it had some

452
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:56,000
gizmo in the back that it controlled the

453
00:17:01,189 --> 00:16:58,399
shutter mechanism and and the um and the

454
00:17:03,430 --> 00:17:01,199
video feed so it could be and then so it

455
00:17:05,189 --> 00:17:03,440
could be the information back or store

456
00:17:07,110 --> 00:17:05,199
it rather so when it was brought back to

457
00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:07,120
base it could download the information

458
00:17:11,590 --> 00:17:09,520
so it's fairly unsophisticated

459
00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:11,600
technology now you would expect that if

460
00:17:15,829 --> 00:17:13,439
they were trying to win a war they would

461
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:15,839
feel some of their real latest kit to

462
00:17:18,789 --> 00:17:17,520
get the job done and yet they've got

463
00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:18,799
these kind of things that you know you

464
00:17:22,789 --> 00:17:20,400
can buy in a probably a hobby store

465
00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:22,799
which it seems very very strange um

466
00:17:25,829 --> 00:17:24,319
they've got one called the orlan 30

467
00:17:27,909 --> 00:17:25,839
which is actually twice as heavy it goes

468
00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:27,919
further it's got a 16 hour

469
00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:30,640
endurance i think um it's a bit more com

470
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:31,919
it's a bit more complicated but

471
00:17:35,430 --> 00:17:33,120
effectively it's still a radio

472
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:35,440
controlled airplane now they're not

473
00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:37,200
going to be the kind of things that have

474
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:39,840
you know have been reported in these uap

475
00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:41,919
incidents that the u.s navy been mobbed

476
00:17:44,870 --> 00:17:43,440
by these drones

477
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:44,880
but there might be something else along

478
00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:47,440
the you know along the the pipeline that

479
00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:49,520
they've come up with but from that

480
00:17:53,990 --> 00:17:51,360
technology i can't see how they've left

481
00:17:55,909 --> 00:17:54,000
to something like that the chinese okay

482
00:17:57,510 --> 00:17:55,919
that's a different story because yes

483
00:17:59,830 --> 00:17:57,520
chris is right you know they've come up

484
00:18:01,590 --> 00:17:59,840
with this amazing technology over the

485
00:18:03,909 --> 00:18:01,600
years but i'm not entirely sure they're

486
00:18:05,510 --> 00:18:03,919
there yet with that either um they can

487
00:18:07,350 --> 00:18:05,520
do i think some of the things that the

488
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:07,360
drone that they've been reported so

489
00:18:10,630 --> 00:18:09,120
you've got your high speed you've got

490
00:18:12,789 --> 00:18:10,640
lightering you've got this kind of

491
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:12,799
swarming technology but putting all that

492
00:18:16,390 --> 00:18:14,799
together in one platform

493
00:18:18,150 --> 00:18:16,400
i think that might be

494
00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:18,160
where the kind of you know

495
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:19,840
that might be where people fall down in

496
00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:21,360
terms of being able to integrate all

497
00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:24,080
this technology into one package to get

498
00:18:27,669 --> 00:18:25,360
it to do everything that's being

499
00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:27,679
reported and i think that might be a

500
00:18:31,909 --> 00:18:29,840
little bit too far for even the best

501
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:31,919
kind of technology at the moment right

502
00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:34,480
across the world america included

503
00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:35,520
yeah

504
00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:40,400
mentioned before about you know these

505
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:42,240
things eventually come out and yes

506
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:44,960
stealth did come out about 15 years

507
00:18:49,990 --> 00:18:47,200
after the first half blue prototypes in

508
00:18:52,150 --> 00:18:50,000
1975 uh and then senior trend which

509
00:18:54,870 --> 00:18:52,160
actually was the f-107 and then it came

510
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:54,880
out in 1988 i think that they brought it

511
00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:57,360
out in publicly now things like the the

512
00:19:01,669 --> 00:18:58,960
calvin object which we'll talk about

513
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:01,679
which probably was us tech and certainly

514
00:19:06,789 --> 00:19:04,080
astra the av-6 that crashed the box

515
00:19:08,470 --> 00:19:06,799
boscom down in 1994 those things have

516
00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:08,480
never been unveiled

517
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:10,400
so you know and this is what 30 odd

518
00:19:13,909 --> 00:19:12,720
years later so why

519
00:19:16,950 --> 00:19:13,919
are they keeping those things under

520
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:16,960
wraps um so you know yes okay at one

521
00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:19,200
time there were unveiling these things

522
00:19:23,510 --> 00:19:21,200
some years later but it seems that

523
00:19:25,590 --> 00:19:23,520
stopped and why is that why has that

524
00:19:27,669 --> 00:19:25,600
happened and are we going to see you

525
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:27,679
know these revelations in future are the

526
00:19:31,110 --> 00:19:29,760
u.s uh military going to come out and

527
00:19:33,029 --> 00:19:31,120
say yeah we've had this thing under

528
00:19:34,470 --> 00:19:33,039
wraps for years and now you can know

529
00:19:37,029 --> 00:19:34,480
about it but that doesn't seem to happen

530
00:19:39,190 --> 00:19:37,039
anymore and why is that

531
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:39,200
right especially with the

532
00:19:42,710 --> 00:19:40,480
severe

533
00:19:45,029 --> 00:19:42,720
over classification problem here in the

534
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:45,039
united states too like it's so

535
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:47,679
frustrating that we're learning now that

536
00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:51,520
this new pentagon group or program or

537
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:52,960
merge

538
00:19:57,909 --> 00:19:56,480
chimeras of different uh ufo programs

539
00:19:59,270 --> 00:19:57,919
within the government here in the united

540
00:20:00,789 --> 00:19:59,280
states that

541
00:20:03,029 --> 00:20:00,799
they're basically saying a hundred

542
00:20:06,149 --> 00:20:03,039
percent of this stuff is going to be

543
00:20:08,310 --> 00:20:06,159
classified which is so like

544
00:20:10,630 --> 00:20:08,320
disheartening knowing that we've come

545
00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:10,640
this far we've fought this fight and

546
00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:14,720
once again um our good friend susan goff

547
00:20:19,110 --> 00:20:16,240
is going to be getting

548
00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:19,120
all the ufo stuff and going to be in

549
00:20:23,830 --> 00:20:21,360
charge of everything that gets released

550
00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:23,840
to the public for media purposes and and

551
00:20:28,789 --> 00:20:26,240
whatnot and yeah it it's it's

552
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:28,799
frustrating graham it really is um

553
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:30,559
chrissy how we doing can you hear me

554
00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:32,880
good yeah my i keep losing that's why i

555
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:34,240
had to put my different headsets oh no

556
00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:37,200
worries i can hear you guys i can't hear

557
00:20:41,190 --> 00:20:39,760
you at one point so anyway no worries

558
00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:41,200
that's live streaming

559
00:20:48,789 --> 00:20:45,590
um

560
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:48,799
well you know in terms of i guess

561
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:51,679
releasing or whatnot let's get to this

562
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:53,760
other big story that broke recently and

563
00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:56,080
has kind of garnered a lot of really

564
00:21:00,549 --> 00:20:57,440
sensational

565
00:21:02,470 --> 00:21:00,559
headlines and that was um from the sun

566
00:21:04,710 --> 00:21:02,480
and i can't believe i'm saying that like

567
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:04,720
we're going by a breaking story from the

568
00:21:10,870 --> 00:21:07,360
sun but we are that's where we're at in

569
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:10,880
2022. um but this headline was 1500

570
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:13,360
pages released um

571
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:17,280
on uap related to brain damage burns and

572
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:18,799
unaccounted for

573
00:21:21,909 --> 00:21:20,960
pregnancies

574
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:21,919
um

575
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:24,400
okay so that's where we're at now when

576
00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:26,720
it comes to mainstream media coverage of

577
00:21:31,350 --> 00:21:29,039
the uap topic i'm going to read a brief

578
00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:31,360
paragraph here the pentagon documents

579
00:21:35,909 --> 00:21:33,440
state that people who observed

580
00:21:37,909 --> 00:21:35,919
ufos frequently displayed a cluster of

581
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:37,919
similar physical symptoms injuries

582
00:21:42,789 --> 00:21:39,679
consistent with exposure to

583
00:21:45,669 --> 00:21:42,799
electromagnetic radiation such as burns

584
00:21:47,190 --> 00:21:45,679
heart ailments and sleep disturbances a

585
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:47,200
report speculates that these could be

586
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:49,120
caused by energy related propulsion

587
00:21:53,110 --> 00:21:51,360
systems and warns that the underlying

588
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:53,120
technology could pose a threat to the

589
00:21:58,149 --> 00:21:55,760
united states interests

590
00:21:59,990 --> 00:21:58,159
let's see here additionally in cases

591
00:22:02,310 --> 00:22:00,000
that would not seem out of place in an

592
00:22:05,110 --> 00:22:02,320
x-files episode there were accounts of

593
00:22:07,750 --> 00:22:05,120
apparent abduction and unaccounted for

594
00:22:08,710 --> 00:22:07,760
pregnancies

595
00:22:11,830 --> 00:22:08,720
okay

596
00:22:14,710 --> 00:22:11,840
so you know we've we've heard these

597
00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:14,720
stories from gary nolan recently um with

598
00:22:19,029 --> 00:22:16,960
vice and whatnot about um

599
00:22:20,870 --> 00:22:19,039
you know the sort of connections and

600
00:22:23,909 --> 00:22:20,880
comparisons that could be made between

601
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:23,919
ufo witnesses and and stuff like that um

602
00:22:29,750 --> 00:22:27,840
both physically and psychologically too

603
00:22:32,789 --> 00:22:29,760
but um what do you guys think of this

604
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:32,799
1500 page release that i the sun i

605
00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:34,159
believe they said they've been working

606
00:22:37,270 --> 00:22:35,840
on for almost four

607
00:22:39,590 --> 00:22:37,280
years now

608
00:22:41,590 --> 00:22:39,600
am i correct in that yeah they fought

609
00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:41,600
their the other foia request

610
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:44,000
the question i have on a on a pr exactly

611
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:45,600
like when i first read that when that

612
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:48,320
came out i went hold on so we look at

613
00:22:53,350 --> 00:22:51,280
like susan goff and everyone else

614
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:53,360
i would like to know obviously her

615
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:54,960
thoughts which we'll never know her

616
00:22:59,990 --> 00:22:57,840
exact opinions on that but when you're

617
00:23:01,750 --> 00:23:00,000
leaking something to the sun or you're

618
00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:01,760
sending out of a foil request to the sun

619
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:03,360
why not there have been other people

620
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:04,960
that have probably submitted this i

621
00:23:08,549 --> 00:23:06,400
would imagine

622
00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:08,559
so my question is why the sun

623
00:23:10,630 --> 00:23:09,520
um

624
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:10,640
and

625
00:23:14,230 --> 00:23:12,320
why wasn't there any a larger statement

626
00:23:16,470 --> 00:23:14,240
around that like

627
00:23:17,990 --> 00:23:16,480
it seems very weird to me why release to

628
00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:18,000
a tabloid

629
00:23:25,430 --> 00:23:22,559
when if these stories are that important

630
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:25,440
why wouldn't another statement follow it

631
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:26,320
so

632
00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:30,000
been tons of burns and and things that

633
00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:31,679
have happened to people

634
00:23:37,029 --> 00:23:34,320
over the years with ufo connections and

635
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:37,039
we know that that is we know that that

636
00:23:41,029 --> 00:23:39,280
that's happened and it's in multiple

637
00:23:43,350 --> 00:23:41,039
stories that are connected with ufos and

638
00:23:45,269 --> 00:23:43,360
experiencers but the question is why

639
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:45,279
just release this like this to the sun

640
00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:46,240
and then just not have another

641
00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:48,880
co-statement to go along with it i just

642
00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:51,120
there there's a lot of like hmm this

643
00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:52,880
doesn't make sense and i would imagine

644
00:23:57,110 --> 00:23:55,360
that susan goff knows what she's doing

645
00:23:58,950 --> 00:23:57,120
there she knew she knows it's going out

646
00:24:01,510 --> 00:23:58,960
that's her job is to watch everything

647
00:24:03,590 --> 00:24:01,520
that we're doing right now so

648
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:03,600
there's there's a lot of um

649
00:24:06,549 --> 00:24:05,360
i don't know it doesn't mean i it

650
00:24:08,870 --> 00:24:06,559
doesn't mean that some of these things

651
00:24:10,710 --> 00:24:08,880
aren't true it's just the dissemination

652
00:24:12,870 --> 00:24:10,720
of information is just very weird in my

653
00:24:14,470 --> 00:24:12,880
mind yeah is it interesting there's an

654
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:14,480
interesting reason for that and that

655
00:24:19,110 --> 00:24:17,039
would be credibility so if you if you

656
00:24:21,990 --> 00:24:19,120
release uh information on that line to a

657
00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:22,000
tabloid then it's a case of well it's a

658
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:23,919
tabloid isn't it it's not a it's not a

659
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:26,480
broad sheet it's not a well respected

660
00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:28,320
organ or as respected as it maybe should

661
00:24:33,590 --> 00:24:30,960
be and the sun the mirror of the star in

662
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:33,600
in in england in britain rather you know

663
00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:35,200
that they're considered laughing stocks

664
00:24:38,149 --> 00:24:36,480
occasionally for the kind of stories

665
00:24:40,870 --> 00:24:38,159
that they they produce

666
00:24:42,149 --> 00:24:40,880
the star especially so you know if you

667
00:24:45,029 --> 00:24:42,159
give them to if you give them to the

668
00:24:47,029 --> 00:24:45,039
times or the telegraph or um your paper

669
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:47,039
or the guardian in the uk then that

670
00:24:50,870 --> 00:24:48,960
would be different but that's not where

671
00:24:53,510 --> 00:24:50,880
it goes and it went to the sun the

672
00:24:56,149 --> 00:24:53,520
presumably the us version the sun or the

673
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:56,159
uk version and well that destroys the

674
00:24:59,669 --> 00:24:57,600
credibility straight away because of the

675
00:25:01,110 --> 00:24:59,679
way they'll treat the story i'm not

676
00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:01,120
saying that the journalists at the sun

677
00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:02,960
are are no good they're that they're

678
00:25:07,269 --> 00:25:04,720
fine and in the times of reporting they

679
00:25:08,630 --> 00:25:07,279
do but it's not the same as giving it to

680
00:25:11,830 --> 00:25:08,640
say the bbc

681
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:11,840
to to run with the story you know so

682
00:25:14,390 --> 00:25:12,720
it's

683
00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:14,400
they're not being you know they're not

684
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:16,159
being untruthful in giving the

685
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:18,240
information to them and the sun aren't

686
00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:20,400
being untruthful in reporting it it's

687
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:22,080
just that the kind of that credibility

688
00:25:27,909 --> 00:25:24,960
level is not as high as it would be if a

689
00:25:30,149 --> 00:25:27,919
much more respected publication or

690
00:25:31,590 --> 00:25:30,159
television you know sort of um

691
00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:31,600
kind of you know the the

692
00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:34,080
fox bbc got a hold of it and said you

693
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:35,200
know here we're going to run with this

694
00:25:40,870 --> 00:25:38,480
story um but yes chrissy you're right

695
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:40,880
you know there have been stories of um

696
00:25:44,870 --> 00:25:42,640
you know effects so you've got the

697
00:25:47,750 --> 00:25:44,880
falcon lake incident was that 67 in

698
00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:47,760
canada um where the the the guy had um

699
00:25:51,190 --> 00:25:49,600
that kind of grid mark of burns on his

700
00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:51,200
body because he'd been hit by the

701
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:52,880
exhaust from a craft when it was taking

702
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:55,200
off so and that was a famous story

703
00:26:00,390 --> 00:25:56,960
they're the cash landrum incident from

704
00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:00,400
1980 um one of them or they had burns

705
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:03,440
which were reminiscent of radiation yes

706
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:05,200
without the kind of death effects if you

707
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:07,520
like um so yeah you've got cases or and

708
00:26:12,950 --> 00:26:10,400
i've got a case in my book from 1945

709
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:12,960
of obama crew who not only was there an

710
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:14,960
electrical electromagnetic possible

711
00:26:19,830 --> 00:26:17,200
effect on the aircraft

712
00:26:22,149 --> 00:26:19,840
mechanics but also the actual the crew

713
00:26:24,230 --> 00:26:22,159
had effects themselves so you've got a

714
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:24,240
two-sided thing there so yeah there are

715
00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:26,240
stories um you know from right

716
00:26:31,669 --> 00:26:28,480
throughout the kind of history of ufos

717
00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:31,679
about effects on not just machinery cars

718
00:26:35,669 --> 00:26:34,080
etc but also on people

719
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:35,679
yeah and i also think that if anybody

720
00:26:39,029 --> 00:26:37,440
who's experienced this and has you know

721
00:26:40,630 --> 00:26:39,039
any type of effect that's happened to

722
00:26:43,029 --> 00:26:40,640
them you know a mark on their body or

723
00:26:45,029 --> 00:26:43,039
any like anything physical when you see

724
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:45,039
that story released from

725
00:26:49,029 --> 00:26:47,120
from the sun and then comes out you're

726
00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:49,039
probably shaking your head going you

727
00:26:52,549 --> 00:26:50,400
know they're discrediting it like you

728
00:26:54,630 --> 00:26:52,559
said and and that's unfortunate on that

729
00:26:55,990 --> 00:26:54,640
on its own as well because

730
00:26:57,590 --> 00:26:56,000
you know even when the sun picks it up

731
00:26:59,350 --> 00:26:57,600
we still have live science and a lot of

732
00:27:01,430 --> 00:26:59,360
other mainstream media

733
00:27:02,870 --> 00:27:01,440
take the story and run with it too so it

734
00:27:04,950 --> 00:27:02,880
doesn't mean that it's not going to go

735
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:04,960
into the mainstream but i'm curious if

736
00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:06,400
even the new york times would run a

737
00:27:11,350 --> 00:27:09,840
story like this like you know you need

738
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:11,360
a lot of back information and it would

739
00:27:15,029 --> 00:27:12,960
love to like have ralph blumenthal or

740
00:27:16,390 --> 00:27:15,039
leslie on this to to speak to that too

741
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:16,400
it'd be really interesting to see their

742
00:27:19,029 --> 00:27:17,520
perspective

743
00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:19,039
if that if that was leaked to them

744
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:21,279
through a foyer um that

745
00:27:24,070 --> 00:27:22,799
the times would even would they even

746
00:27:26,310 --> 00:27:24,080
acknowledge it because sometimes they

747
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:26,320
don't pick up other stories from

748
00:27:30,070 --> 00:27:28,320
individual like from ralph or leslie

749
00:27:32,310 --> 00:27:30,080
right so i'm curious to see if they

750
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:32,320
would even consider it yeah or the bbc

751
00:27:36,789 --> 00:27:34,720
would yeah yeah and you know with the

752
00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:36,799
new york times ralph and leslie both

753
00:27:42,789 --> 00:27:39,760
said like how long it took uh to

754
00:27:44,950 --> 00:27:42,799
um source everything and vet everything

755
00:27:47,350 --> 00:27:44,960
just to get that first article out and

756
00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:47,360
then you're right the times wouldn't run

757
00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:49,360
um subsequent articles that they had

758
00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:51,440
written because they couldn't back it up

759
00:27:54,950 --> 00:27:53,200
because they didn't have it um you know

760
00:27:56,950 --> 00:27:54,960
what i find interesting too with this

761
00:27:58,149 --> 00:27:56,960
this story is um

762
00:28:02,789 --> 00:27:58,159
kind of the

763
00:28:05,029 --> 00:28:02,799
feedback loop i call it phenomenon of um

764
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:05,039
people like elizondo have gone on record

765
00:28:10,789 --> 00:28:07,200
saying you know where we got a lot of

766
00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:10,799
our information about ufos is from you

767
00:28:15,350 --> 00:28:12,640
guys from

768
00:28:18,789 --> 00:28:15,360
ufologists from the many books written

769
00:28:21,029 --> 00:28:18,799
from mufon case files and like you guys

770
00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:21,039
did the heavy lifting and a lot of the

771
00:28:26,149 --> 00:28:23,440
stuff we looked at we pulled from that

772
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:26,159
research from those articles from those

773
00:28:29,830 --> 00:28:27,600
books blah blah blah

774
00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:29,840
to try to find answers and see what you

775
00:28:33,909 --> 00:28:32,320
guys came up with um so i find that

776
00:28:36,789 --> 00:28:33,919
really interesting is that what we're

777
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:36,799
seeing with this 1500 page thing where

778
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:39,200
did these pages come from what are the

779
00:28:44,149 --> 00:28:41,120
sources for them and i've seen people

780
00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:44,159
say a lot of it came from past mufon

781
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:46,480
investigations and whatnot so there you

782
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:49,200
go um you know it's not so much these

783
00:28:53,510 --> 00:28:51,840
are government files on ufos but they're

784
00:28:56,389 --> 00:28:53,520
merely

785
00:28:59,110 --> 00:28:56,399
case files for mufon from nycap from new

786
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:59,120
fork from qfos from blah blah blah blah

787
00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:01,039
blah every sort of organization you can

788
00:29:04,870 --> 00:29:03,039
think of that they've kind of compiled

789
00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:04,880
and said look here's some files give

790
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:06,000
them to the public because they're

791
00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:08,320
already out there anyways um

792
00:29:12,149 --> 00:29:10,080
so i it's kind of again this like

793
00:29:14,070 --> 00:29:12,159
constant feedback loop of where we're

794
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:14,080
reading and hearing the same stories

795
00:29:19,430 --> 00:29:17,039
over and over uh because these have been

796
00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:19,440
made public these are declassified these

797
00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:21,440
are stories of people saying they were

798
00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:24,080
kidnapped by aliens and impregnated by

799
00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:26,880
aliens or you know had strange psychic

800
00:29:30,950 --> 00:29:29,440
abilities after they saw a ufo

801
00:29:33,029 --> 00:29:30,960
it's not so much the government

802
00:29:35,750 --> 00:29:33,039
investigated that it's just that they

803
00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:35,760
said oh cool let's put that in the file

804
00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:38,320
and release it to the sun i i don't know

805
00:29:42,389 --> 00:29:40,480
yeah but i think we'd even see

806
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:42,399
i would say 20 years ago when a tablet

807
00:29:45,190 --> 00:29:43,679
released that you know they would just

808
00:29:46,470 --> 00:29:45,200
stay like the inquirer would release

809
00:29:48,310 --> 00:29:46,480
something and then it would just stay in

810
00:29:49,990 --> 00:29:48,320
the inquirer right

811
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:50,000
but mainstream would never pick it up so

812
00:29:54,549 --> 00:29:52,320
this is the first time we're ever seeing

813
00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:54,559
that mainstream is looking at a tabloid

814
00:30:00,310 --> 00:29:57,919
and running their story too like that

815
00:30:02,549 --> 00:30:00,320
like what kind of media world do we live

816
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:02,559
in now and

817
00:30:09,590 --> 00:30:07,510
the evolution is very interesting so if

818
00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:09,600
the sun has this what else is the sun

819
00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:10,640
going to come out with if they have

820
00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:12,320
other floyd crests that imagine and what

821
00:30:16,149 --> 00:30:13,760
is the government going to give them

822
00:30:19,830 --> 00:30:16,159
yeah right and what what if they are the

823
00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:19,840
ones to break some huge mega ultra story

824
00:30:24,070 --> 00:30:21,440
like are we to

825
00:30:25,430 --> 00:30:24,080
believe it then and is that the plan to

826
00:30:27,669 --> 00:30:25,440
release it through something like that

827
00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:27,679
or the national enquirer here in the

828
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:29,279
united states i don't know um

829
00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:31,520
christopher plane said did ryan's ufo

830
00:30:36,549 --> 00:30:32,960
sighting get him pregnant because that

831
00:30:40,389 --> 00:30:38,549
i'm sorry i have no comment on that

832
00:30:42,389 --> 00:30:40,399
chris our resident comedian at the

833
00:30:44,230 --> 00:30:42,399
debrief

834
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:44,240
i have been having a lot of weird

835
00:30:48,789 --> 00:30:46,720
cravings lately of like ice cream and

836
00:30:50,950 --> 00:30:48,799
pickles so there might be something to

837
00:30:53,990 --> 00:30:50,960
that been a little moody but um i don't

838
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:54,000
want to go too down the the sexist route

839
00:30:58,950 --> 00:30:56,000
there so i'm gonna stop talking about

840
00:31:01,350 --> 00:30:58,960
pregnancy um

841
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:01,360
do you guys have anything else on this

842
00:31:06,470 --> 00:31:04,320
story before we move on to our third and

843
00:31:08,470 --> 00:31:06,480
possibly most ridiculous news story to

844
00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:08,480
come out

845
00:31:13,190 --> 00:31:10,320
no good let's see

846
00:31:14,789 --> 00:31:13,200
all right let's do it let's do it

847
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:14,799
showtime

848
00:31:21,269 --> 00:31:18,399
encounters trademark lawsuit over ufo

849
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:21,279
docu-series um so apparently i can't say

850
00:31:26,950 --> 00:31:24,240
ufo i'm about to get sued um by bill

851
00:31:29,350 --> 00:31:26,960
burns but yeah let's read this brief

852
00:31:31,830 --> 00:31:29,360
recap of this story ufo magazine is the

853
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:31,840
owner of the trademark for entertainment

854
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:33,760
in the nature of a television series and

855
00:31:39,990 --> 00:31:36,080
motion picture film series

856
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:40,000
um let's see for the term ufo uh the

857
00:31:44,470 --> 00:31:42,240
trademark was registered in 2007 and

858
00:31:46,630 --> 00:31:44,480
renewed in 2017.

859
00:31:48,789 --> 00:31:46,640
ufo magazine argues that showtime's

860
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:48,799
docu-series the one by j.j abrams for

861
00:31:53,909 --> 00:31:51,760
anyone who hasn't seen it yet um it

862
00:31:57,190 --> 00:31:53,919
devalues its plans to release an

863
00:31:59,750 --> 00:31:57,200
identically titled movie or show as

864
00:32:02,789 --> 00:31:59,760
recently as september of 2020 ufo

865
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:02,799
magazine is a sponsorship role um has a

866
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:04,880
sponsorship role with the virtual

867
00:32:09,509 --> 00:32:07,200
international ufo congress

868
00:32:12,230 --> 00:32:09,519
sought collaborators for development of

869
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:12,240
a movie um

870
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:15,600
so yeah basically jj abrams and crew

871
00:32:19,509 --> 00:32:18,000
are being sued for calling their

872
00:32:22,549 --> 00:32:19,519
docu-series

873
00:32:24,630 --> 00:32:22,559
ufo um

874
00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:24,640
that's it that's the story what do you

875
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:26,480
guys think about it i i can't believe

876
00:32:31,029 --> 00:32:28,559
we're having this conversation graham

877
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:31,039
what do you think man it's bonkers that

878
00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:32,960
that's a good real fashion english word

879
00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:36,240
bonkers it's crazy so how the hell do

880
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:37,760
you trademark

881
00:32:41,269 --> 00:32:39,440
uh you know

882
00:32:43,909 --> 00:32:41,279
letters that have been in useful what

883
00:32:45,750 --> 00:32:43,919
like 70 years 75 years how do you how do

884
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:45,760
you manage that how do you turn by the

885
00:32:49,029 --> 00:32:47,360
u.s air force

886
00:32:50,389 --> 00:32:49,039
yeah it does have to persuade a judge or

887
00:32:51,509 --> 00:32:50,399
something to come and say yeah okay i

888
00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:51,519
agree with that how does how does it

889
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:52,320
work

890
00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:53,679
um

891
00:32:58,310 --> 00:32:56,000
it's it's stupid does that mean now that

892
00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:58,320
someone i could now go out and trademark

893
00:33:01,750 --> 00:33:00,240
lol and then get a lot of people to pay

894
00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:01,760
me because they use it every day on

895
00:33:04,470 --> 00:33:03,360
their phone

896
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:04,480
does that work

897
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:06,720
because if not i'm gonna do it because

898
00:33:15,669 --> 00:33:14,470
he might i know he's working on it right

899
00:33:17,190 --> 00:33:15,679
now i was gonna say graham you gotta

900
00:33:19,990 --> 00:33:17,200
move to the u.s man because we are the

901
00:33:22,549 --> 00:33:20,000
most litigious place on the planet and

902
00:33:24,549 --> 00:33:22,559
look someone tried to trademark the term

903
00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:24,559
secret space program a few years back we

904
00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:26,240
won't say his name because we don't want

905
00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:28,480
to give him publicity um but i thought

906
00:33:32,630 --> 00:33:31,519
it was hilarious so i made like a parody

907
00:33:35,110 --> 00:33:32,640
commercial

908
00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:35,120
saying like hi i'm ryan sprague and i'm

909
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:37,840
trademarking the term ufo so anytime you

910
00:33:41,669 --> 00:33:39,760
use it now and i put like the ching

911
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:41,679
sound behind it making money every time

912
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:45,120
anyone says ufo and i did this as a joke

913
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:47,760
and now here we are in 2022 and someone

914
00:33:54,230 --> 00:33:50,640
is suing someone for using the term ufo

915
00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:54,240
chrissy you are our resident pr person

916
00:33:58,310 --> 00:33:55,919
what do you make of all that like good

917
00:34:00,070 --> 00:33:58,320
for you for trademarking that and it is

918
00:34:03,110 --> 00:34:00,080
entertainment and you know the business

919
00:34:04,549 --> 00:34:03,120
so good for you for doing it but come on

920
00:34:06,870 --> 00:34:04,559
like you really think you're going to

921
00:34:10,149 --> 00:34:06,880
use it and i think that's

922
00:34:11,589 --> 00:34:10,159
he was he was waiting for this moment

923
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:11,599
i think that's what was happening it was

924
00:34:14,710 --> 00:34:13,200
waiting it's like somebody for example

925
00:34:16,869 --> 00:34:14,720
when they have a song that comes out and

926
00:34:18,629 --> 00:34:16,879
they use a similar riff and then they

927
00:34:21,109 --> 00:34:18,639
they don't go and sue them right away

928
00:34:23,270 --> 00:34:21,119
they wait like 20 years for the money to

929
00:34:25,430 --> 00:34:23,280
build up and then they sue them because

930
00:34:27,109 --> 00:34:25,440
they know they're going to cash out um i

931
00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:27,119
think like tons of artists have gone

932
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:28,879
through this but it's the same kind of

933
00:34:32,310 --> 00:34:30,480
idea i think they were just waiting on

934
00:34:33,990 --> 00:34:32,320
it but i also want to know if this

935
00:34:36,790 --> 00:34:34,000
documentary is going to come out so

936
00:34:38,790 --> 00:34:36,800
let's apparently if you are then what is

937
00:34:40,950 --> 00:34:38,800
this you know you've a you've leaked

938
00:34:42,310 --> 00:34:40,960
your new documentary apparently that's

939
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:42,320
coming out or that you're going to be

940
00:34:45,829 --> 00:34:43,599
doing something that i think that's what

941
00:34:48,310 --> 00:34:45,839
he was saying correct ufo magazine's

942
00:34:50,069 --> 00:34:48,320
working on a dock and taking the name so

943
00:34:51,990 --> 00:34:50,079
okay well you leaked that that's not a

944
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:52,000
good thing for pr you should have maybe

945
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:54,399
this wasn't your plan for release

946
00:34:58,710 --> 00:34:56,159
because if you did you would speak more

947
00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:58,720
about your documentary and why it was in

948
00:35:01,829 --> 00:35:00,720
planning the one thing i will say for

949
00:35:04,310 --> 00:35:01,839
them though is that they gave them a

950
00:35:06,310 --> 00:35:04,320
couple chances to respond to j.j abrams

951
00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:06,320
team or sorry not jj abrams it was

952
00:35:09,270 --> 00:35:07,920
showtime didn't respond to it and

953
00:35:10,950 --> 00:35:09,280
ignored it so

954
00:35:12,710 --> 00:35:10,960
you know that's they could have made a

955
00:35:14,630 --> 00:35:12,720
statement or something else related to

956
00:35:16,630 --> 00:35:14,640
it but there's probably legal reasons

957
00:35:17,910 --> 00:35:16,640
why they didn't respond i would

958
00:35:20,310 --> 00:35:17,920
obviously imagine they know what they're

959
00:35:23,589 --> 00:35:20,320
doing but it is ridiculous like it's

960
00:35:25,589 --> 00:35:23,599
just it's it is in you know

961
00:35:27,030 --> 00:35:25,599
it's trash counting out of it it is

962
00:35:28,870 --> 00:35:27,040
paydirt they're just like that's what

963
00:35:30,790 --> 00:35:28,880
eric do you really care about the topic

964
00:35:32,710 --> 00:35:30,800
you care about the money and that's or

965
00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:32,720
the money yeah and it's a domain

966
00:35:36,870 --> 00:35:34,720
squatter situation aaron says and that's

967
00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:36,880
true people will buy domains for

968
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:38,560
websites that they know

969
00:35:43,750 --> 00:35:40,720
people will search for um just to make

970
00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:43,760
money and i understand like living we

971
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:45,839
all live in not all of us but most of us

972
00:35:51,990 --> 00:35:49,599
live in a capitalistic society and um

973
00:35:55,030 --> 00:35:52,000
like if you can get ahead somehow you're

974
00:35:55,829 --> 00:35:55,040
gonna do it and i just i'm going through

975
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:55,839
um

976
00:36:00,230 --> 00:35:58,720
right now the trademark experience with

977
00:36:02,390 --> 00:36:00,240
somewhere in the skies because i've been

978
00:36:04,069 --> 00:36:02,400
doing a show for almost two years and

979
00:36:06,790 --> 00:36:04,079
everyone was like that's trademarked

980
00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:06,800
right and i'm like yeah totally for sure

981
00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:09,440
yeah um so now anyone watching is gonna

982
00:36:13,990 --> 00:36:12,000
try to go beat me to it um i i should

983
00:36:16,069 --> 00:36:14,000
probably cut this from the the recorded

984
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:16,079
version of the show um i'm thinking

985
00:36:20,310 --> 00:36:18,480
myself into a corner but i'm just being

986
00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:20,320
honest like i'm dealing with this this

987
00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:21,760
sort of thing right now with somewhere

988
00:36:26,950 --> 00:36:23,920
in the skies and it's true like you have

989
00:36:29,270 --> 00:36:26,960
to get a trademark for a certain um

990
00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:29,280
entertainment purpose or television

991
00:36:33,990 --> 00:36:31,119
chrissy you you and i know this very

992
00:36:36,550 --> 00:36:34,000
well like certain things are

993
00:36:39,510 --> 00:36:36,560
um you know we're legally bound to when

994
00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:39,520
it comes to television or um or this or

995
00:36:43,829 --> 00:36:40,960
that uh

996
00:36:47,109 --> 00:36:43,839
it it's just the way that it is um but

997
00:36:48,470 --> 00:36:47,119
it does make me truly wonder what uh ufo

998
00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:48,480
magazine or

999
00:36:53,190 --> 00:36:50,880
uh by proxy bill burns the owner of ufo

1000
00:36:55,589 --> 00:36:53,200
magazine uh what his end goal is with

1001
00:36:58,230 --> 00:36:55,599
this is it just for publicity is it for

1002
00:37:00,630 --> 00:36:58,240
the money or does he really think like

1003
00:37:02,950 --> 00:37:00,640
he owns the term ufo if that's the case

1004
00:37:05,910 --> 00:37:02,960
like the dudes lost it completely

1005
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:05,920
completely yeah my thing is just and do

1006
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:07,200
how much do you really care about the

1007
00:37:11,109 --> 00:37:08,880
topic then

1008
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:11,119
that's just my you know my thing are you

1009
00:37:14,630 --> 00:37:13,200
here to just cash out and make pay dirt

1010
00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:14,640
make some money and then leave and

1011
00:37:18,069 --> 00:37:16,400
that's kind of what i'm seeing here and

1012
00:37:19,829 --> 00:37:18,079
to be honest as a pr person it's bad

1013
00:37:21,430 --> 00:37:19,839
publicity anyway you're gonna have a

1014
00:37:23,349 --> 00:37:21,440
film if anyone people might watch your

1015
00:37:25,190 --> 00:37:23,359
film after this but they're not maybe

1016
00:37:26,790 --> 00:37:25,200
not going to respect you as much and to

1017
00:37:29,190 --> 00:37:26,800
be honest if you're going to stay in a

1018
00:37:31,430 --> 00:37:29,200
community that is you know is worldly

1019
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:31,440
and global around this topic then you

1020
00:37:35,829 --> 00:37:34,240
know i would and making money off people

1021
00:37:37,750 --> 00:37:35,839
they they actually might not consume

1022
00:37:39,190 --> 00:37:37,760
thinking that too i know i might not

1023
00:37:40,870 --> 00:37:39,200
watch it if i know that this person is

1024
00:37:42,550 --> 00:37:40,880
just trying to make money and that's it

1025
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:42,560
like i think people are allowed to make

1026
00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:44,880
money obviously in the ufo community

1027
00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:46,480
because people do have to have a living

1028
00:37:51,589 --> 00:37:48,240
but i don't think that you should be

1029
00:37:53,589 --> 00:37:51,599
using words that everyone uses like ufo

1030
00:37:55,190 --> 00:37:53,599
you know or flying saucer you know like

1031
00:37:57,270 --> 00:37:55,200
you see kenneth arnold trying to you

1032
00:37:59,670 --> 00:37:57,280
know make it

1033
00:38:01,670 --> 00:37:59,680
make a you know trying to copyright that

1034
00:38:03,670 --> 00:38:01,680
so like it just i think it's kind of

1035
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:03,680
ridiculous to be able to be honest as an

1036
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:06,640
author i've used the word ufo ufos in my

1037
00:38:11,750 --> 00:38:09,839
book title and i may well use the term

1038
00:38:12,950 --> 00:38:11,760
flying saucer and another book i might

1039
00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:12,960
write in the future but that doesn't

1040
00:38:16,550 --> 00:38:14,640
mean to say i'm going to trademark it

1041
00:38:18,310 --> 00:38:16,560
and i wouldn't expect anybody to sue me

1042
00:38:20,390 --> 00:38:18,320
because i've used it because it's in

1043
00:38:22,630 --> 00:38:20,400
common usage um you know people use it

1044
00:38:23,910 --> 00:38:22,640
all the time in books and magazines and

1045
00:38:25,589 --> 00:38:23,920
websites and all the rest of it and i

1046
00:38:26,950 --> 00:38:25,599
can't see how you could but then again

1047
00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:26,960
that's a that's a british perspective

1048
00:38:32,870 --> 00:38:29,200
we're not as you know litigious as you

1049
00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:32,880
guys across there are so thank god

1050
00:38:38,710 --> 00:38:35,520
we have to tell him too

1051
00:38:40,390 --> 00:38:38,720
it's uap now i'm like come on we're

1052
00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:40,400
moving forward yeah he's probably going

1053
00:38:45,109 --> 00:38:42,000
to start trying to trademark that as

1054
00:38:45,910 --> 00:38:45,119
well right i know don't give him ideas

1055
00:38:50,069 --> 00:38:45,920
no

1056
00:38:52,870 --> 00:38:50,079
many ideas night gazers said be right

1057
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:52,880
back trademarking aaron said i'm gonna

1058
00:38:57,349 --> 00:38:54,720
go register uap

1059
00:38:59,270 --> 00:38:57,359
it's so true it's so true um so

1060
00:39:01,589 --> 00:38:59,280
christopher plane asked um will graham

1061
00:39:04,230 --> 00:39:01,599
be taking any questions about um world

1062
00:39:05,670 --> 00:39:04,240
war ii and ufos and i'm starring the

1063
00:39:08,550 --> 00:39:05,680
questions chris we'll get to those

1064
00:39:10,069 --> 00:39:08,560
towards the end with graham for sure um

1065
00:39:12,470 --> 00:39:10,079
i definitely do want to talk about your

1066
00:39:13,829 --> 00:39:12,480
book graham and and your upcoming

1067
00:39:17,190 --> 00:39:13,839
project if there's anything you can

1068
00:39:18,630 --> 00:39:17,200
tease with that but um before we do that

1069
00:39:19,829 --> 00:39:18,640
before we do that graham there is

1070
00:39:22,150 --> 00:39:19,839
something i do want to talk to you about

1071
00:39:23,829 --> 00:39:22,160
and it has a little something to do

1072
00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:23,839
with this official somewhere in the

1073
00:39:29,109 --> 00:39:26,720
skies mug that is not trademarked i

1074
00:39:31,910 --> 00:39:29,119
should get on that too um with that

1075
00:39:33,750 --> 00:39:31,920
lovely tic tac there now

1076
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:33,760
one of the big things i appreciate about

1077
00:39:37,910 --> 00:39:35,760
um what you do on twitter

1078
00:39:40,710 --> 00:39:37,920
and what uh people like witness citizen

1079
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:40,720
do is dig up all these documents and

1080
00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:42,640
files of cases um

1081
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:45,280
you know even pre-world war ii but um

1082
00:39:49,990 --> 00:39:47,599
kind of during that time period and kind

1083
00:39:51,670 --> 00:39:50,000
of comparing it to things going on

1084
00:39:53,829 --> 00:39:51,680
now and that's what i find most

1085
00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:53,839
fascinating even as decades and decades

1086
00:39:59,430 --> 00:39:56,800
past there are some similarities between

1087
00:40:02,150 --> 00:39:59,440
uap that are being reported and i know

1088
00:40:04,790 --> 00:40:02,160
that you have come across a few cases um

1089
00:40:06,309 --> 00:40:04,800
you'd mentioned to me back in the uh the

1090
00:40:08,390 --> 00:40:06,319
early 50s

1091
00:40:10,309 --> 00:40:08,400
that might or might not have some

1092
00:40:12,630 --> 00:40:10,319
connections with the tic tac things

1093
00:40:15,109 --> 00:40:12,640
we're seeing or the the nimitz invent on

1094
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:15,119
a more broad spectrum um

1095
00:40:19,270 --> 00:40:17,280
so yeah is that something you wanna you

1096
00:40:21,829 --> 00:40:19,280
wanna touch on here before we move on to

1097
00:40:23,109 --> 00:40:21,839
the calvin incident one of my favorites

1098
00:40:25,349 --> 00:40:23,119
yeah i can talk about that for a few

1099
00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:25,359
minutes um so if you cast your mind back

1100
00:40:30,309 --> 00:40:26,880
to even before i brought the book on the

1101
00:40:32,710 --> 00:40:30,319
foo fighters out last year in april um i

1102
00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:32,720
uh did an article for the debrief about

1103
00:40:36,309 --> 00:40:35,200
the similarities between the some of the

1104
00:40:38,870 --> 00:40:36,319
fruit or the

1105
00:40:42,150 --> 00:40:38,880
world war ii reporting and the nimitz

1106
00:40:43,990 --> 00:40:42,160
case from 2004 and there was a specific

1107
00:40:46,069 --> 00:40:44,000
incident that happened with two actual

1108
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:46,079
incidents that happened in 1943 one of

1109
00:40:50,550 --> 00:40:47,760
which i covered in the article which

1110
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:50,560
were fairly similar but also i found

1111
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:52,560
since i'm doing another book which you

1112
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:54,000
mentioned before that i am actually

1113
00:40:58,150 --> 00:40:55,760
writing another book at the moment about

1114
00:40:59,430 --> 00:40:58,160
some cases a bit later on and then this

1115
00:41:01,109 --> 00:40:59,440
is not a foo fighter book this is

1116
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:01,119
something else but in the course of

1117
00:41:05,589 --> 00:41:03,280
looking through um some of the the

1118
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:05,599
documents from cyan and from grudge and

1119
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:07,920
from bluebook i've found some witness

1120
00:41:11,990 --> 00:41:10,160
cases um now

1121
00:41:14,870 --> 00:41:12,000
one of them is fairly well known it's

1122
00:41:17,589 --> 00:41:14,880
the george gorman case from um

1123
00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:17,599
which is from the first of october 1948

1124
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:20,640
and he was a a north dakota air national

1125
00:41:26,790 --> 00:41:23,280
guard pilot who effectively got into a

1126
00:41:28,470 --> 00:41:26,800
dogfight with a white light over fargo

1127
00:41:31,109 --> 00:41:28,480
um um

1128
00:41:33,270 --> 00:41:31,119
in in north dakota uh one night at who's

1129
00:41:34,710 --> 00:41:33,280
coming back to base and i'll just read a

1130
00:41:36,390 --> 00:41:34,720
little bit out of the report if i can

1131
00:41:38,630 --> 00:41:36,400
and this is from a checklist of

1132
00:41:41,270 --> 00:41:38,640
unidentified flying objects which was

1133
00:41:43,430 --> 00:41:41,280
incident number 172 from the project

1134
00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:43,440
sign files and project sign was the

1135
00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:45,920
first official ufo investigation by the

1136
00:41:50,710 --> 00:41:48,880
us air force and what he mentions is um

1137
00:41:52,710 --> 00:41:50,720
he said this is a quote from from the

1138
00:41:54,390 --> 00:41:52,720
actual um information that was put in

1139
00:41:55,750 --> 00:41:54,400
the report and he says the closest

1140
00:41:57,990 --> 00:41:55,760
government ever got to the object was a

1141
00:42:00,230 --> 00:41:58,000
head-on pass at which time the object

1142
00:42:02,069 --> 00:42:00,240
passed over him at less than 500 feet it

1143
00:42:04,390 --> 00:42:02,079
then appeared to him to be from six to

1144
00:42:06,309 --> 00:42:04,400
eight inches in diameter it was white

1145
00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:06,319
with no apparent glare and a clear-cut

1146
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:09,119
edge it apparently had depth it did not

1147
00:42:12,870 --> 00:42:11,440
uh it did not seem an exact ball but it

1148
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:12,880
appeared flat

1149
00:42:16,630 --> 00:42:14,400
realizing that the speed of the object

1150
00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:16,640
was too much for him gorman

1151
00:42:21,190 --> 00:42:19,200
attempted to cut it off in turns at this

1152
00:42:23,349 --> 00:42:21,200
time his fighter was under full power

1153
00:42:25,349 --> 00:42:23,359
speed varying from 300 to 400 miles an

1154
00:42:27,349 --> 00:42:25,359
hour the object circled to the left he

1155
00:42:29,829 --> 00:42:27,359
cut it back to it for a head-on pass the

1156
00:42:31,990 --> 00:42:29,839
pass was made of 5000 feet the object

1157
00:42:34,309 --> 00:42:32,000
approaching head-on until a collision

1158
00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:34,319
seemed inevitable it then veered and

1159
00:42:39,030 --> 00:42:36,560
passed 500 feet or less of both over the

1160
00:42:40,790 --> 00:42:39,040
top of him he chandelled which is type

1161
00:42:43,910 --> 00:42:40,800
of maneuver that fight the pilot would

1162
00:42:46,309 --> 00:42:43,920
do and then initiated a pass at gorman

1163
00:42:50,309 --> 00:42:46,319
so it was actually you know reacting to

1164
00:42:52,950 --> 00:42:50,319
him um if you like and and and

1165
00:42:54,390 --> 00:42:52,960
almost in the same kind of vein as the

1166
00:42:56,950 --> 00:42:54,400
nimitz encounter where they were going

1167
00:42:59,270 --> 00:42:56,960
around in circles and fravo was trying

1168
00:43:01,270 --> 00:42:59,280
to cut the corner if you like on the tic

1169
00:43:03,990 --> 00:43:01,280
tac now this is a kind of similar thing

1170
00:43:05,990 --> 00:43:04,000
there that in the report he mentions

1171
00:43:07,670 --> 00:43:06,000
that gorman tries to cut the corner

1172
00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:07,680
to get behind this whatever this thing

1173
00:43:11,349 --> 00:43:09,839
was um and there was a series of and

1174
00:43:13,270 --> 00:43:11,359
this thing was making head-on passes in

1175
00:43:15,990 --> 00:43:13,280
him now that's not the only one and you

1176
00:43:18,550 --> 00:43:16,000
can look then to 1952

1177
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:18,560
and over oak ridge tennessee which is

1178
00:43:23,349 --> 00:43:20,720
where the uh atomic energy commission

1179
00:43:25,030 --> 00:43:23,359
facility was that actually managed to

1180
00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:25,040
manufacture the material for the atom

1181
00:43:29,109 --> 00:43:27,040
bombs during world war ii there and it

1182
00:43:32,230 --> 00:43:29,119
was a fairly sensitive aerial so it was

1183
00:43:35,190 --> 00:43:32,240
in an atomic facility so there anything

1184
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:35,200
that was reported strange over that area

1185
00:43:38,710 --> 00:43:37,200
fighter pilots responded to it they were

1186
00:43:40,870 --> 00:43:38,720
you know they were scrambled from nearby

1187
00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:40,880
bases and this

1188
00:43:44,150 --> 00:43:42,560
this one is another air national guard

1189
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:44,160
he's a tennessean air national guard

1190
00:43:49,270 --> 00:43:46,400
pilot this is from

1191
00:43:51,430 --> 00:43:49,280
june 1952 and he's flying an f47

1192
00:43:53,589 --> 00:43:51,440
thunderbolt and again it's a blinking

1193
00:43:56,069 --> 00:43:53,599
white light flying around making passes

1194
00:43:58,150 --> 00:43:56,079
at him he turns to meet the pass and

1195
00:44:00,470 --> 00:43:58,160
this thing pulled up to 4000 to 500 feet

1196
00:44:01,750 --> 00:44:00,480
above him no silhouette visible only a

1197
00:44:03,829 --> 00:44:01,760
white light

1198
00:44:06,309 --> 00:44:03,839
and so there's another report of a

1199
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:06,319
dogfight happening between an aircraft

1200
00:44:11,030 --> 00:44:09,040
and an unidentified flying object again

1201
00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:11,040
that's called from the official report

1202
00:44:15,910 --> 00:44:13,280
that ended up in in the investigation

1203
00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:15,920
files and one final one if i can this

1204
00:44:21,109 --> 00:44:17,920
one's from um

1205
00:44:23,589 --> 00:44:21,119
from much later and this involves 1954

1206
00:44:25,589 --> 00:44:23,599
this is june 1954 and the lieutenant

1207
00:44:28,790 --> 00:44:25,599
rowe who was from the ohio national air

1208
00:44:31,349 --> 00:44:28,800
national guard again flying a mustang

1209
00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:31,359
such as the george gorman case from 1948

1210
00:44:36,630 --> 00:44:34,400
and this is over dayton ohio where again

1211
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:36,640
a strange object follows them back from

1212
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:38,400
a flight from columbus

1213
00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:40,880
and then they get into a dogfight and

1214
00:44:45,589 --> 00:44:42,400
this is just a little quick quote from

1215
00:44:47,750 --> 00:44:45,599
the from the report again um he mentions

1216
00:44:49,589 --> 00:44:47,760
that he made a regular fighter turns

1217
00:44:51,990 --> 00:44:49,599
into the object but all times it turned

1218
00:44:54,390 --> 00:44:52,000
with him um and so that's one of the

1219
00:44:56,069 --> 00:44:54,400
quotes it seemed to be slightly above me

1220
00:44:58,390 --> 00:44:56,079
at all times that's another one he

1221
00:45:00,230 --> 00:44:58,400
thinks it's a jet but it it does things

1222
00:45:03,589 --> 00:45:00,240
that jet can't do so these are all

1223
00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:03,599
official reports and it's rather strange

1224
00:45:07,829 --> 00:45:05,680
how these things just keep cropping up

1225
00:45:09,910 --> 00:45:07,839
time after time and time again

1226
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:09,920
in the official reporting now i know

1227
00:45:14,150 --> 00:45:12,160
that likes of sign grudge and blue book

1228
00:45:16,550 --> 00:45:14,160
got a slating and have had continuous

1229
00:45:18,790 --> 00:45:16,560
slating from ufo enthusiasts over the

1230
00:45:21,430 --> 00:45:18,800
years because of the way they tread uh

1231
00:45:23,670 --> 00:45:21,440
witnesses etc um you know

1232
00:45:25,270 --> 00:45:23,680
well bloop especially later on

1233
00:45:28,470 --> 00:45:25,280
in its existence but actually the

1234
00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:28,480
information itself is is is gold dust

1235
00:45:32,069 --> 00:45:30,240
you know in terms of the detail it's got

1236
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:32,079
in it and i think a lot of people have

1237
00:45:36,069 --> 00:45:34,160
written off these these reports because

1238
00:45:38,069 --> 00:45:36,079
of the association with the the

1239
00:45:39,750 --> 00:45:38,079
mechanisms that were used to try and

1240
00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:39,760
write them off for mundane you know

1241
00:45:43,589 --> 00:45:41,920
reasons such as venus and meteors and

1242
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:43,599
all the rest of it but the information

1243
00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:45,520
solid it comes from the pilots

1244
00:45:49,829 --> 00:45:47,440
themselves and it all builds up to make

1245
00:45:51,670 --> 00:45:49,839
a pic to build a picture up of all these

1246
00:45:55,109 --> 00:45:51,680
things that going on which were oddly

1247
00:45:56,790 --> 00:45:55,119
reminiscent of the 2005 incident albeit

1248
00:45:58,630 --> 00:45:56,800
the aircraft are different and the you

1249
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:58,640
know the the capabilities are slightly

1250
00:46:03,109 --> 00:46:00,480
different but the actual

1251
00:46:05,109 --> 00:46:03,119
mechanics of the situation are quite are

1252
00:46:07,349 --> 00:46:05,119
quite similar in terms of the dogfight

1253
00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:07,359
and the inability of the pilots to be

1254
00:46:11,910 --> 00:46:09,839
able to recognize or get or actually get

1255
00:46:12,829 --> 00:46:11,920
the better of or intercept what these

1256
00:46:15,910 --> 00:46:12,839
things

1257
00:46:17,750 --> 00:46:15,920
were wow wow it's so interesting yeah

1258
00:46:19,910 --> 00:46:17,760
and you know you bring up you know

1259
00:46:22,069 --> 00:46:19,920
that's just the us i mean

1260
00:46:24,710 --> 00:46:22,079
uh chrissy and i spoke to daniel otis

1261
00:46:25,430 --> 00:46:24,720
over um at vice recently about

1262
00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:25,440
the

1263
00:46:30,550 --> 00:46:28,720
hundreds of files he got from transport

1264
00:46:33,349 --> 00:46:30,560
canada and the canadian government where

1265
00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:33,359
there were cases as well of you know

1266
00:46:38,790 --> 00:46:35,680
these ufos having quote unquote like

1267
00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:38,800
games or dog fights in so many words

1268
00:46:43,589 --> 00:46:41,200
with uap and the only reason he was able

1269
00:46:45,430 --> 00:46:43,599
to get those files is uh some of them

1270
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:45,440
were through norad and you're able to

1271
00:46:51,349 --> 00:46:48,560
get those as a canadian in canada where

1272
00:46:53,589 --> 00:46:51,359
we can't in the united states still um

1273
00:46:56,470 --> 00:46:53,599
so yeah i i think it's fascinating that

1274
00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:56,480
we can even cross this against different

1275
00:47:00,150 --> 00:46:58,240
governments and countries where these

1276
00:47:03,670 --> 00:47:00,160
dogfight things are happening with

1277
00:47:05,990 --> 00:47:03,680
similar white lighted ufos or white

1278
00:47:07,910 --> 00:47:06,000
oblong shaped craft and the fact that

1279
00:47:10,630 --> 00:47:07,920
they're seeing them in the 50s and now

1280
00:47:13,109 --> 00:47:10,640
we're seeing them in the the you know

1281
00:47:15,829 --> 00:47:13,119
the later arts and like what does that

1282
00:47:17,430 --> 00:47:15,839
tell us are we seeing the same craft why

1283
00:47:20,630 --> 00:47:17,440
are we seeing the same technology

1284
00:47:23,109 --> 00:47:20,640
displayed in 50 and now in 2022 like

1285
00:47:25,589 --> 00:47:23,119
have they not updated their craft or

1286
00:47:27,829 --> 00:47:25,599
what's the deal here or is it just um

1287
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:27,839
pilot not pilot error but pilot

1288
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:30,960
perception or witness perception um i

1289
00:47:34,390 --> 00:47:32,160
don't know i don't know we can make

1290
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:34,400
patterns of anything yeah i would well

1291
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:36,240
it also goes back to cultural feedback

1292
00:47:41,190 --> 00:47:38,400
loops i'm like fascinated by them to be

1293
00:47:43,270 --> 00:47:41,200
honest like the psychology around how we

1294
00:47:44,710 --> 00:47:43,280
you know different different centuries

1295
00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:44,720
or different times seeing you know every

1296
00:47:48,710 --> 00:47:47,280
decade we see a ufo and it looks a

1297
00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:48,720
certain way and they say that it might

1298
00:47:53,190 --> 00:47:51,040
be a projection right of what we how

1299
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:53,200
we've evolved as a society and so we're

1300
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:55,280
projecting these ufos or these images

1301
00:47:59,270 --> 00:47:57,200
because then pop culture takes it and

1302
00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:59,280
then pop culture blows it up and then we

1303
00:48:02,390 --> 00:48:00,800
can people see their sightings and then

1304
00:48:04,549 --> 00:48:02,400
it gets reconfirmed and then it happens

1305
00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:04,559
again so but what happens is we're

1306
00:48:09,109 --> 00:48:06,400
seeing in culture feedback loops is that

1307
00:48:10,950 --> 00:48:09,119
you're looking at 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s

1308
00:48:12,390 --> 00:48:10,960
you know we keep going those crafts have

1309
00:48:14,549 --> 00:48:12,400
changed but now we're seeing that

1310
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:14,559
they're staying the same so it really

1311
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:16,720
does change the definition of a culture

1312
00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:19,200
feedback loop because

1313
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:20,640
the culture feedback loop would say that

1314
00:48:25,270 --> 00:48:23,119
well it's just as we evolve as humans

1315
00:48:27,510 --> 00:48:25,280
and as we have evolved the image and the

1316
00:48:29,589 --> 00:48:27,520
projection is evolving as well

1317
00:48:30,870 --> 00:48:29,599
but we're not it's kind of not seeing

1318
00:48:32,829 --> 00:48:30,880
that if we're seeing tic tacs from the

1319
00:48:37,190 --> 00:48:32,839
50s and they're coming back now

1320
00:48:38,549 --> 00:48:37,200
so yeah and i i just i this just dawned

1321
00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:38,559
on me which i can't believe it took me

1322
00:48:44,470 --> 00:48:41,760
this long but like graham's entire book

1323
00:48:46,470 --> 00:48:44,480
ufos before roswell like covering the

1324
00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:46,480
early inception of the foo fighter

1325
00:48:51,430 --> 00:48:48,400
phenomenon that's like the most

1326
00:48:53,349 --> 00:48:51,440
prevalent type of ufo today so we have

1327
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:53,359
kind of come full circle where we went

1328
00:48:55,270 --> 00:48:54,160
from

1329
00:48:57,510 --> 00:48:55,280
lights

1330
00:49:00,069 --> 00:48:57,520
dog fighting with these planes no one

1331
00:49:02,950 --> 00:49:00,079
knows who they belong to or what they

1332
00:49:05,349 --> 00:49:02,960
were doing there um and like

1333
00:49:07,589 --> 00:49:05,359
then we went to solid craft of saucers

1334
00:49:10,230 --> 00:49:07,599
and triangles and this and that and now

1335
00:49:13,270 --> 00:49:10,240
the most reported ufos seem to be these

1336
00:49:15,750 --> 00:49:13,280
plasma-like orbs or foo fighter-esque

1337
00:49:17,750 --> 00:49:15,760
phenomena happening which is it's crazy

1338
00:49:19,510 --> 00:49:17,760
it's crazy i i can't think of a more

1339
00:49:20,309 --> 00:49:19,520
ample time for your book to have come

1340
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:20,319
out

1341
00:49:25,030 --> 00:49:22,480
and to be completely honest because

1342
00:49:26,950 --> 00:49:25,040
again foo fighters are making a comeback

1343
00:49:28,549 --> 00:49:26,960
apparently apparently i don't think they

1344
00:49:30,390 --> 00:49:28,559
ever went away i think if you look at

1345
00:49:32,549 --> 00:49:30,400
the reporting from right through the

1346
00:49:33,990 --> 00:49:32,559
years i think every so often you'll see

1347
00:49:36,150 --> 00:49:34,000
these reports

1348
00:49:39,190 --> 00:49:36,160
of lights orbs whatever you want to call

1349
00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:39,200
them um from you know the early 1940s

1350
00:49:43,510 --> 00:49:41,520
all the way through the present but also

1351
00:49:45,270 --> 00:49:43,520
you still get reports of what used to be

1352
00:49:46,470 --> 00:49:45,280
called cigar-shaped objects that's the

1353
00:49:48,390 --> 00:49:46,480
thing you know i remember from when i

1354
00:49:50,069 --> 00:49:48,400
was growing up reading ufo boots now

1355
00:49:52,230 --> 00:49:50,079
they're called tic tacs but they're

1356
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:52,240
essentially the same kind of thing to a

1357
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:54,720
degree and even in during world war ii

1358
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:56,640
i've got reports in the book of oblong

1359
00:49:59,990 --> 00:49:58,640
oblong-shaped objects i mean bear in

1360
00:50:02,630 --> 00:50:00,000
mind some of these were quite large they

1361
00:50:04,549 --> 00:50:02,640
were reported as 50 feet 100 feet 200

1362
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:04,559
feet sometimes but you know the

1363
00:50:08,790 --> 00:50:06,640
efficiency the dimensions might change

1364
00:50:10,870 --> 00:50:08,800
but the actual shape is still

1365
00:50:12,549 --> 00:50:10,880
effectively a tic-tac

1366
00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:12,559
although they reported zeppelin looking

1367
00:50:16,870 --> 00:50:14,720
like zeppelins back then but a zeppelin

1368
00:50:19,670 --> 00:50:16,880
was a tic tac really isn't it so you

1369
00:50:23,109 --> 00:50:19,680
know the things can change in magnitude

1370
00:50:25,270 --> 00:50:23,119
in terms of dimensions and maybe speeds

1371
00:50:26,790 --> 00:50:25,280
but overall they still look fairly

1372
00:50:28,870 --> 00:50:26,800
similar and you still can boil them down

1373
00:50:30,549 --> 00:50:28,880
into a certain number of shapes you know

1374
00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:30,559
you've seen those charts or ufos where

1375
00:50:34,950 --> 00:50:32,240
they have all the different shapes and i

1376
00:50:37,190 --> 00:50:34,960
bet that redacted report when it come

1377
00:50:38,710 --> 00:50:37,200
when people get to see it when it says

1378
00:50:40,390 --> 00:50:38,720
about the different shapes it'll boil it

1379
00:50:41,750 --> 00:50:40,400
down into about half a dozen or a dozen

1380
00:50:43,750 --> 00:50:41,760
different types and they'll all be

1381
00:50:45,270 --> 00:50:43,760
things that we're fairly familiar with

1382
00:50:48,069 --> 00:50:45,280
maybe not the cuban sphere but you know

1383
00:50:50,069 --> 00:50:48,079
the other things will be fairly failing

1384
00:50:52,069 --> 00:50:50,079
yeah yeah we know what those are ah that

1385
00:50:54,630 --> 00:50:52,079
damn cubanosphere that thing will

1386
00:50:56,549 --> 00:50:54,640
mystify me till the end of time

1387
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:56,559
oh for real um well you know while we're

1388
00:51:00,150 --> 00:50:58,559
on the subject uh christopher plane

1389
00:51:01,990 --> 00:51:00,160
asked a pretty interesting question that

1390
00:51:04,390 --> 00:51:02,000
i want to throw up there before we

1391
00:51:05,990 --> 00:51:04,400
finally get to calvin sorry to cover

1392
00:51:07,510 --> 00:51:06,000
your mouth there chrissy

1393
00:51:09,990 --> 00:51:07,520
graham some have theorized that the

1394
00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:10,000
hesterlin lights may be an artifact um

1395
00:51:13,589 --> 00:51:12,000
you know high power radio waves is there

1396
00:51:16,069 --> 00:51:13,599
any indication that foo fighters may

1397
00:51:18,150 --> 00:51:16,079
have also been atmospheric phenomena did

1398
00:51:19,750 --> 00:51:18,160
that come across in any of your um

1399
00:51:21,829 --> 00:51:19,760
explanations for what the foo fighters

1400
00:51:23,589 --> 00:51:21,839
could have been it's been postulated

1401
00:51:25,750 --> 00:51:23,599
post-war when people have looked at it

1402
00:51:27,030 --> 00:51:25,760
you know in the last sort of 20 20 30

1403
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:27,040
years people have come up with that as

1404
00:51:30,549 --> 00:51:28,800
an explanation more lightning being you

1405
00:51:33,190 --> 00:51:30,559
know another one but in terms of

1406
00:51:34,870 --> 00:51:33,200
evidence no there's nothing like that as

1407
00:51:36,470 --> 00:51:34,880
far as i'm aware certainly not for the

1408
00:51:39,270 --> 00:51:36,480
wartime stuff i mean bearing in mind

1409
00:51:40,630 --> 00:51:39,280
that their um kind of examination of the

1410
00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:40,640
phenomena we can get at this later if

1411
00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:43,200
you like was fairly sparse in terms of

1412
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:44,240
you know trying to work out what the

1413
00:51:48,150 --> 00:51:46,160
hell it was they went down one

1414
00:51:50,309 --> 00:51:48,160
particular road which we can speak to

1415
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:50,319
later on but that's all that they looked

1416
00:51:54,549 --> 00:51:52,319
at and when that what that didn't appear

1417
00:51:57,109 --> 00:51:54,559
to be the case they didn't they couldn't

1418
00:51:59,109 --> 00:51:57,119
go anywhere else because all avenues of

1419
00:52:01,430 --> 00:51:59,119
exploration to them

1420
00:52:03,589 --> 00:52:01,440
were meaningless so but i can talk about

1421
00:52:05,589 --> 00:52:03,599
that later on but no you know they

1422
00:52:07,109 --> 00:52:05,599
haven't really looked at it earth lights

1423
00:52:09,270 --> 00:52:07,119
as being any kind of

1424
00:52:10,870 --> 00:52:09,280
um explanation for this but it could

1425
00:52:13,510 --> 00:52:10,880
well be you know it's one of those

1426
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:13,520
things that yeah it's possible but

1427
00:52:16,950 --> 00:52:15,200
nobody's really been able to work it out

1428
00:52:19,430 --> 00:52:16,960
and say yeah there you go that's that's

1429
00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:19,440
what it is but equally you can't rule it

1430
00:52:24,549 --> 00:52:22,079
out and i don't rule anything out uh

1431
00:52:25,750 --> 00:52:24,559
there are things i don't rule in because

1432
00:52:27,829 --> 00:52:25,760
they're so preposterous that they're

1433
00:52:29,829 --> 00:52:27,839
laughable but that's again in the book

1434
00:52:31,430 --> 00:52:29,839
but yes that's one of the things yeah

1435
00:52:33,750 --> 00:52:31,440
could be could be

1436
00:52:35,670 --> 00:52:33,760
could be yeah um this is an interesting

1437
00:52:37,829 --> 00:52:35,680
comment lord ludacris says my

1438
00:52:40,069 --> 00:52:37,839
grandfather was a p-38 pilot and was

1439
00:52:41,589 --> 00:52:40,079
also part of the berlin airlift he never

1440
00:52:43,670 --> 00:52:41,599
saw a foo fighter but i remember him

1441
00:52:45,829 --> 00:52:43,680
saying the pilots did talk about them

1442
00:52:48,710 --> 00:52:45,839
that is really interesting and we hear

1443
00:52:51,030 --> 00:52:48,720
that more and more you know that um you

1444
00:52:53,510 --> 00:52:51,040
know after they do leave the air force

1445
00:52:55,910 --> 00:52:53,520
or the navy that a lot of these pilots

1446
00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:55,920
uh then go on to say yeah i did see that

1447
00:53:00,630 --> 00:52:57,599
yes i did see that i had a pilot

1448
00:53:03,109 --> 00:53:00,640
actually reach out to me um last month

1449
00:53:04,630 --> 00:53:03,119
that was um over in the persian gulf and

1450
00:53:06,549 --> 00:53:04,640
had a really

1451
00:53:09,030 --> 00:53:06,559
fascinating ufo setting i'm hoping to

1452
00:53:11,510 --> 00:53:09,040
get her yes her

1453
00:53:14,950 --> 00:53:11,520
on the show hopefully soon to talk about

1454
00:53:15,910 --> 00:53:14,960
that um but yeah yeah yeah um anything

1455
00:53:19,030 --> 00:53:15,920
else

1456
00:53:20,390 --> 00:53:19,040
on um those connections between then and

1457
00:53:23,270 --> 00:53:20,400
now that you guys want to touch on

1458
00:53:26,309 --> 00:53:23,280
before we move to calvin

1459
00:53:27,270 --> 00:53:26,319
there's two in the book uh from 1943.

1460
00:53:30,069 --> 00:53:27,280
so

1461
00:53:32,950 --> 00:53:30,079
you've got um connections between 1943

1462
00:53:34,390 --> 00:53:32,960
and 2004 so there were two different

1463
00:53:36,150 --> 00:53:34,400
fighter pilots

1464
00:53:38,790 --> 00:53:36,160
one was over north africa

1465
00:53:41,670 --> 00:53:38,800
um he was a new zealander 73 squadron

1466
00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:41,680
and he wrote to the new zealand um like

1467
00:53:47,190 --> 00:53:44,400
aviation minister after a particular

1468
00:53:49,990 --> 00:53:47,200
famous sighting in 1955 saying look i

1469
00:53:52,230 --> 00:53:50,000
saw this in 1943 a light that basically

1470
00:53:54,230 --> 00:53:52,240
followed him sat on his wingtip over

1471
00:53:55,589 --> 00:53:54,240
north africa um

1472
00:53:56,790 --> 00:53:55,599
he was trying everything he could to get

1473
00:53:59,270 --> 00:53:56,800
this thing off his wingtip and it

1474
00:54:00,470 --> 00:53:59,280
wouldn't move it just sat there uh it

1475
00:54:02,230 --> 00:54:00,480
got the point where he could actually

1476
00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:02,240
turn the aircraft and there was a bit of

1477
00:54:06,630 --> 00:54:04,160
a delay in it responding so he managed

1478
00:54:08,870 --> 00:54:06,640
to get behind it at one stage and he was

1479
00:54:10,150 --> 00:54:08,880
firing 20 millimeter cannon at it and

1480
00:54:11,990 --> 00:54:10,160
the cannon shells were going into the

1481
00:54:14,069 --> 00:54:12,000
light and nothing was happening so you

1482
00:54:16,710 --> 00:54:14,079
know that's one story and then there's

1483
00:54:19,430 --> 00:54:16,720
another story over um southern italy in

1484
00:54:21,829 --> 00:54:19,440
in december 1943 of a beaufighter crew a

1485
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:21,839
night fighter crew again with a light

1486
00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:24,000
and them going in a spiraling engagement

1487
00:54:29,030 --> 00:54:25,839
the two of them going round and round in

1488
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:29,040
circles upwards uh to about 12 000 feet

1489
00:54:32,950 --> 00:54:31,359
and this light just getting away from

1490
00:54:35,510 --> 00:54:32,960
the bow fighter which was actually quite

1491
00:54:37,270 --> 00:54:35,520
a powerful aircraft um and just

1492
00:54:39,109 --> 00:54:37,280
disappearing so there's all these kind

1493
00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:39,119
of stories that you know that having

1494
00:54:42,710 --> 00:54:40,640
these involve these kind of foo fighter

1495
00:54:45,270 --> 00:54:42,720
type lights even before the term was

1496
00:54:47,270 --> 00:54:45,280
invented by the americans these things

1497
00:54:49,990 --> 00:54:47,280
were still happening and affecting rf

1498
00:54:52,150 --> 00:54:50,000
pilots long before the foo fighters

1499
00:54:54,549 --> 00:54:52,160
became a thing

1500
00:54:57,990 --> 00:54:54,559
wow interesting last question on that

1501
00:55:00,870 --> 00:54:58,000
gram i promise before we we get to um uh

1502
00:55:02,309 --> 00:55:00,880
what i really want to talk about i know

1503
00:55:06,230 --> 00:55:02,319
i don't know why

1504
00:55:08,309 --> 00:55:06,240
especially after some of the the stuff

1505
00:55:10,630 --> 00:55:08,319
you told me about it um that we will get

1506
00:55:12,230 --> 00:55:10,640
into um did graham this is from

1507
00:55:15,589 --> 00:55:12,240
christopher plane did graham find any

1508
00:55:18,470 --> 00:55:15,599
accounts of um pilots colliding with foo

1509
00:55:20,390 --> 00:55:18,480
fighters or any like truly near misses

1510
00:55:22,870 --> 00:55:20,400
anything like that great question it's

1511
00:55:24,549 --> 00:55:22,880
just there's a story of the balkans that

1512
00:55:26,789 --> 00:55:24,559
something hit an aircraft hit an raf

1513
00:55:29,349 --> 00:55:26,799
bomber um over possibly hungary or

1514
00:55:31,910 --> 00:55:29,359
romania somewhere like that in 1944

1515
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:31,920
there are stories of 1943 of an american

1516
00:55:37,030 --> 00:55:34,480
daylight raid over stuttgart where a

1517
00:55:39,270 --> 00:55:37,040
shoal of little black discs fell from

1518
00:55:41,030 --> 00:55:39,280
the air from the sky and hit and one of

1519
00:55:43,829 --> 00:55:41,040
them hit the wing of an aircraft and

1520
00:55:44,710 --> 00:55:43,839
maybe caught fire um but again there's

1521
00:55:46,309 --> 00:55:44,720
some

1522
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:46,319
sort of like confusion about that

1523
00:55:51,589 --> 00:55:49,040
particular story um that appeared in a

1524
00:55:53,270 --> 00:55:51,599
in a book in 1960 it's quite an old

1525
00:55:55,190 --> 00:55:53,280
story it's available on the internet

1526
00:55:57,030 --> 00:55:55,200
it's a well-known story

1527
00:55:58,710 --> 00:55:57,040
of of that raid

1528
00:56:01,030 --> 00:55:58,720
so yes there are stories along those

1529
00:56:03,349 --> 00:56:01,040
lines and there are some others as well

1530
00:56:04,789 --> 00:56:03,359
of near misses where things fell through

1531
00:56:06,950 --> 00:56:04,799
bomber formations there's a particular

1532
00:56:09,190 --> 00:56:06,960
story from italy in 1944

1533
00:56:10,549 --> 00:56:09,200
of of that as well so yeah there are

1534
00:56:12,390 --> 00:56:10,559
there are definitely stories and of

1535
00:56:14,870 --> 00:56:12,400
course we don't know about the pilots

1536
00:56:18,710 --> 00:56:14,880
who didn't come back

1537
00:56:20,230 --> 00:56:18,720
right right yeah i oh gosh what are

1538
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:20,240
what's the one that comes to mind to me

1539
00:56:29,190 --> 00:56:24,160
is the valentich case obviously um

1540
00:56:30,950 --> 00:56:29,200
uh the uh the one in michigan as well uh

1541
00:56:32,789 --> 00:56:30,960
is that the the felix moncler case from

1542
00:56:34,390 --> 00:56:32,799
1953 yeah

1543
00:56:35,750 --> 00:56:34,400
yeah very unfortunate

1544
00:56:39,510 --> 00:56:35,760
like superior

1545
00:56:41,750 --> 00:56:39,520
yep yep very sad um and it's happening

1546
00:56:44,390 --> 00:56:41,760
we have to take that into account um you

1547
00:56:45,910 --> 00:56:44,400
know what happened but yeah fascinating

1548
00:56:48,870 --> 00:56:45,920
all right chrissy

1549
00:56:50,230 --> 00:56:48,880
here we go um and i know you yeah let's

1550
00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:50,240
do it because i know you have limited

1551
00:56:53,190 --> 00:56:51,760
time tonight um

1552
00:56:55,910 --> 00:56:53,200
what do you are you familiar with the

1553
00:56:57,750 --> 00:56:55,920
calvin ufo incident i've only

1554
00:56:58,950 --> 00:56:57,760
yeah i'm only fairly familiar with it i

1555
00:57:01,430 --> 00:56:58,960
know that they said that it can't be

1556
00:57:04,150 --> 00:57:01,440
released until like i think 2075 i

1557
00:57:05,990 --> 00:57:04,160
believe so i know yeah

1558
00:57:07,990 --> 00:57:06,000
um and i know that yeah the there was

1559
00:57:09,829 --> 00:57:08,000
two hikers that went hiking i know the

1560
00:57:10,950 --> 00:57:09,839
the story of it and they took the photos

1561
00:57:13,349 --> 00:57:10,960
and it's supposed to be one of the most

1562
00:57:14,390 --> 00:57:13,359
amazing ufo photos and i believe it's a

1563
00:57:17,670 --> 00:57:14,400
diamond shaped and there's been

1564
00:57:19,349 --> 00:57:17,680
renderings of it but um i don't know

1565
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:19,359
where we're at there we go i don't know

1566
00:57:21,910 --> 00:57:20,720
where we're at that's a rendering just

1567
00:57:23,510 --> 00:57:21,920
so make sure people don't think it's

1568
00:57:24,309 --> 00:57:23,520
real yes

1569
00:57:26,390 --> 00:57:24,319
let's

1570
00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:26,400
give that precursor this is not in

1571
00:57:31,510 --> 00:57:30,000
everything ufo photo people okay yeah so

1572
00:57:34,309 --> 00:57:31,520
i just know that from the base of the

1573
00:57:36,150 --> 00:57:34,319
story and then i know that as of now um

1574
00:57:37,990 --> 00:57:36,160
the conversation but graham i'd love to

1575
00:57:39,589 --> 00:57:38,000
know where your thoughts are and what

1576
00:57:41,349 --> 00:57:39,599
your thoughts on this and what else you

1577
00:57:43,109 --> 00:57:41,359
might know that you can talk to us about

1578
00:57:44,309 --> 00:57:43,119
let's see yeah so let's kind of if you

1579
00:57:46,150 --> 00:57:44,319
don't mind graham start from the

1580
00:57:46,870 --> 00:57:46,160
beginning man give us like the skivvie

1581
00:57:49,190 --> 00:57:46,880
on

1582
00:57:51,190 --> 00:57:49,200
where this image came from uh this

1583
00:57:53,829 --> 00:57:51,200
rendering i know there's supposedly an

1584
00:57:55,910 --> 00:57:53,839
actual photo but yeah if you don't mind

1585
00:57:57,670 --> 00:57:55,920
like chrissy said like uh cliff notes

1586
00:57:59,589 --> 00:57:57,680
version of what this event is who

1587
00:58:01,190 --> 00:57:59,599
brought it to light you know i did just

1588
00:58:03,430 --> 00:58:01,200
talk to nick pope on the show not too

1589
00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:03,440
long ago he was in new york so i got to

1590
00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:05,920
sit down with him face to face and um

1591
00:58:10,230 --> 00:58:08,880
he's a controversial person um so take

1592
00:58:12,630 --> 00:58:10,240
what you will for him on this incident

1593
00:58:14,710 --> 00:58:12,640
but he is directly involved apparently

1594
00:58:15,829 --> 00:58:14,720
so um yeah take it from there man i'm

1595
00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:15,839
gonna shut up

1596
00:58:19,190 --> 00:58:17,760
yeah well nick certainly like has an

1597
00:58:20,630 --> 00:58:19,200
interest in the case because i believe

1598
00:58:22,870 --> 00:58:20,640
he said he had a poster on his wall

1599
00:58:25,030 --> 00:58:22,880
which you know had the this you know

1600
00:58:26,630 --> 00:58:25,040
that was taken from the photograph or

1601
00:58:28,230 --> 00:58:26,640
one of the photographs and then of

1602
00:58:30,390 --> 00:58:28,240
course this representation was taken

1603
00:58:32,710 --> 00:58:30,400
from it there's actually a line drawing

1604
00:58:34,309 --> 00:58:32,720
in the mod archives which you can find

1605
00:58:36,230 --> 00:58:34,319
online um

1606
00:58:38,069 --> 00:58:36,240
it is it does show the craft that you've

1607
00:58:39,910 --> 00:58:38,079
got there it's just like a kind of

1608
00:58:41,990 --> 00:58:39,920
photocopy if you like of a line drawing

1609
00:58:44,230 --> 00:58:42,000
that they use to try and do some

1610
00:58:47,109 --> 00:58:44,240
analysis on the sizes etc of the of the

1611
00:58:49,430 --> 00:58:47,119
object um so it's it's like a very crude

1612
00:58:51,750 --> 00:58:49,440
photocopy and it does show that kind of

1613
00:58:53,349 --> 00:58:51,760
outline shape of the craft and it does

1614
00:58:55,750 --> 00:58:53,359
show an aircraft in roughly that kind of

1615
00:58:57,190 --> 00:58:55,760
position which is a harrier it's you

1616
00:58:59,670 --> 00:58:57,200
know you can tell what type of aircraft

1617
00:59:01,750 --> 00:58:59,680
it is and actually in the original image

1618
00:59:03,750 --> 00:59:01,760
that support they reckon that they found

1619
00:59:05,430 --> 00:59:03,760
evidence of the second aircraft as well

1620
00:59:07,190 --> 00:59:05,440
albeit someone who was much further away

1621
00:59:09,109 --> 00:59:07,200
it doesn't show up on the line drawing

1622
00:59:10,870 --> 00:59:09,119
um the course the photograph itself has

1623
00:59:13,589 --> 00:59:10,880
never been published so you know

1624
00:59:15,270 --> 00:59:13,599
nobody's actually officially seen it

1625
00:59:16,470 --> 00:59:15,280
um but that's all i'll say on that

1626
00:59:18,069 --> 00:59:16,480
matter

1627
00:59:20,470 --> 00:59:18,079
in terms of setting the scene so we're

1628
00:59:23,030 --> 00:59:20,480
looking at the 4th of august 1990 so

1629
00:59:24,710 --> 00:59:23,040
it's you know 32 years ago uh and it's

1630
00:59:27,430 --> 00:59:24,720
about nine o'clock at night

1631
00:59:29,349 --> 00:59:27,440
and this is calvin it's a very

1632
00:59:31,349 --> 00:59:29,359
it's a it's a very small place it's a

1633
00:59:33,750 --> 00:59:31,359
it's a hamlet effectively

1634
00:59:36,230 --> 00:59:33,760
of half a dozen houses a couple of farms

1635
00:59:37,510 --> 00:59:36,240
um just off the main highway from perth

1636
00:59:38,950 --> 00:59:37,520
to inverness which is in central

1637
00:59:41,030 --> 00:59:38,960
scotland so you're going through the

1638
00:59:43,270 --> 00:59:41,040
mountains effectively in scotland

1639
00:59:45,349 --> 00:59:43,280
in the scottish highlands um

1640
00:59:47,670 --> 00:59:45,359
so it's reasonably you know sparsely

1641
00:59:49,829 --> 00:59:47,680
populated but not entirely uninhabited

1642
00:59:51,349 --> 00:59:49,839
so there are people who live there but

1643
00:59:52,630 --> 00:59:51,359
one night so you're nine o'clock at

1644
00:59:54,309 --> 00:59:52,640
night in the middle of the summer so

1645
00:59:55,829 --> 00:59:54,319
there's still light to be able to see

1646
00:59:57,910 --> 00:59:55,839
and take photographs

1647
01:00:01,190 --> 00:59:57,920
two people now chrissy called them

1648
01:00:05,030 --> 01:00:01,200
hikers were on a hillside nearby

1649
01:00:05,990 --> 01:00:05,040
they weren't hikers they were poachers

1650
01:00:09,349 --> 01:00:06,000
so

1651
01:00:11,270 --> 01:00:09,359
the camera with them and this is an

1652
01:00:12,789 --> 01:00:11,280
extrapolation this is not for certain

1653
01:00:14,710 --> 01:00:12,799
but i'm guessing that the reason why

1654
01:00:16,150 --> 01:00:14,720
they had the camera was because they had

1655
01:00:17,750 --> 01:00:16,160
a kill and they were wanting to take a

1656
01:00:18,789 --> 01:00:17,760
picture of it

1657
01:00:20,470 --> 01:00:18,799
because that's the only reason why

1658
01:00:22,549 --> 01:00:20,480
they'd have a camera out there right

1659
01:00:24,309 --> 01:00:22,559
right okay and that makes sense all

1660
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:24,319
right so it's one of these one in a

1661
01:00:28,309 --> 01:00:26,640
million opportunities to take a picture

1662
01:00:29,829 --> 01:00:28,319
of a uf at what you know people are

1663
01:00:31,270 --> 01:00:29,839
called the ufo

1664
01:00:33,430 --> 01:00:31,280
you were in the right place at the right

1665
01:00:34,789 --> 01:00:33,440
time with the right equipment

1666
01:00:35,589 --> 01:00:34,799
it wasn't planned or anything like it

1667
01:00:36,870 --> 01:00:35,599
just happened to be you know

1668
01:00:38,870 --> 01:00:36,880
happenstance

1669
01:00:40,549 --> 01:00:38,880
so these two guys

1670
01:00:42,870 --> 01:00:40,559
took this picture or they took six

1671
01:00:44,390 --> 01:00:42,880
pictures rather apparently

1672
01:00:46,470 --> 01:00:44,400
and this is one of them you know the

1673
01:00:48,309 --> 01:00:46,480
representation of it of this diamond

1674
01:00:51,829 --> 01:00:48,319
shaped craft with this little kind of

1675
01:00:53,750 --> 01:00:51,839
empanadas at the one end of it and one

1676
01:00:55,589 --> 01:00:53,760
at least one harrier now they said the

1677
01:00:57,349 --> 01:00:55,599
harry was flying around you know in the

1678
01:00:58,390 --> 01:00:57,359
area

1679
01:01:00,150 --> 01:00:58,400
and

1680
01:01:03,190 --> 01:01:00,160
of course when the analysis of the of

1681
01:01:04,710 --> 01:01:03,200
the image came up much later the the the

1682
01:01:06,150 --> 01:01:04,720
guys at the ministry of defense actually

1683
01:01:07,750 --> 01:01:06,160
realized that there was another aircraft

1684
01:01:10,150 --> 01:01:07,760
in the image but that wasn't apparent

1685
01:01:12,950 --> 01:01:10,160
straight away now this thing this

1686
01:01:15,030 --> 01:01:12,960
diamond-shaped craft was hovering

1687
01:01:16,710 --> 01:01:15,040
and it hovered there they said when they

1688
01:01:19,750 --> 01:01:16,720
reported the incident

1689
01:01:21,430 --> 01:01:19,760
um for about 10 minutes 15 minutes or so

1690
01:01:23,190 --> 01:01:21,440
um i can't remember the exact time scan

1691
01:01:24,950 --> 01:01:23,200
but it was it was a fair amount of time

1692
01:01:26,630 --> 01:01:24,960
and then it shot upwards

1693
01:01:28,390 --> 01:01:26,640
out of sight

1694
01:01:29,750 --> 01:01:28,400
the aircraft was in the reason now it's

1695
01:01:31,510 --> 01:01:29,760
not clear whether the aircraft were

1696
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:31,520
escorting it or whether they just

1697
01:01:34,630 --> 01:01:33,119
happened to be in the same vicinity you

1698
01:01:35,910 --> 01:01:34,640
know one that again won those million to

1699
01:01:40,069 --> 01:01:35,920
one shots

1700
01:01:42,470 --> 01:01:40,079
it's not entirely clear now the two guys

1701
01:01:44,549 --> 01:01:42,480
actually took the story to the daily

1702
01:01:47,589 --> 01:01:44,559
record which is one of the main

1703
01:01:48,789 --> 01:01:47,599
sort of scottish newspapers

1704
01:01:51,030 --> 01:01:48,799
and

1705
01:01:52,390 --> 01:01:51,040
when they got the pictures

1706
01:01:54,549 --> 01:01:52,400
they didn't know what to do with them

1707
01:01:57,430 --> 01:01:54,559
because i think the if i remember

1708
01:01:59,270 --> 01:01:57,440
rightly the picture editor etc the other

1709
01:02:00,390 --> 01:01:59,280
people who like would deal with it you

1710
01:02:02,390 --> 01:02:00,400
know stuff like this coming into the

1711
01:02:04,710 --> 01:02:02,400
paper he was on holiday

1712
01:02:05,589 --> 01:02:04,720
so there was a relief staff who were on

1713
01:02:06,789 --> 01:02:05,599
and

1714
01:02:08,150 --> 01:02:06,799
rather than

1715
01:02:09,510 --> 01:02:08,160
take the information and publish the

1716
01:02:12,789 --> 01:02:09,520
story which would have been the best

1717
01:02:15,109 --> 01:02:12,799
thing all around and publish the picture

1718
01:02:16,230 --> 01:02:15,119
they they asked the mod

1719
01:02:18,710 --> 01:02:16,240
for comment

1720
01:02:20,549 --> 01:02:18,720
before the story was run and of course

1721
01:02:22,230 --> 01:02:20,559
the mod the ministry of defense said

1722
01:02:23,750 --> 01:02:22,240
well can we have a look at them

1723
01:02:25,670 --> 01:02:23,760
and they went yeah and they passed all

1724
01:02:29,190 --> 01:02:25,680
the information to them

1725
01:02:32,230 --> 01:02:29,200
just give the mod the information

1726
01:02:34,470 --> 01:02:32,240
so mistake one right i thought the

1727
01:02:36,230 --> 01:02:34,480
airport didn't have any of the details

1728
01:02:37,990 --> 01:02:36,240
anymore they passed everything to did i

1729
01:02:39,990 --> 01:02:38,000
do don't even believe the two copies

1730
01:02:43,029 --> 01:02:40,000
they just passed everything to the mod

1731
01:02:46,630 --> 01:02:43,039
um now you can look in the mod uh

1732
01:02:48,150 --> 01:02:46,640
release of files from back then from

1733
01:02:49,270 --> 01:02:48,160
about you know this this time period or

1734
01:02:52,230 --> 01:02:49,280
shortly afterwards rather about

1735
01:02:53,990 --> 01:02:52,240
september time 1990. um they're

1736
01:02:55,910 --> 01:02:54,000
available you know you can see them on

1737
01:02:57,750 --> 01:02:55,920
the internet and

1738
01:03:00,470 --> 01:02:57,760
they do see the kind of backwards and

1739
01:03:02,870 --> 01:03:00,480
forwards of you know the the documents

1740
01:03:04,950 --> 01:03:02,880
to do with this case so

1741
01:03:07,109 --> 01:03:04,960
there is this line drawing because they

1742
01:03:09,510 --> 01:03:07,119
passed it to a branch called di55 which

1743
01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:09,520
is effectively the investigation

1744
01:03:13,990 --> 01:03:11,760
uh arm of the ministry of defense in

1745
01:03:16,470 --> 01:03:14,000
terms of the ufos now you don't see nick

1746
01:03:19,510 --> 01:03:16,480
pope says that he well did does he say

1747
01:03:21,589 --> 01:03:19,520
that he led like the ufo program or he's

1748
01:03:23,589 --> 01:03:21,599
you know he was the major player in it

1749
01:03:25,349 --> 01:03:23,599
i don't necessarily think that's quite

1750
01:03:27,750 --> 01:03:25,359
the case he was certainly there to take

1751
01:03:29,829 --> 01:03:27,760
phone calls and and maybe

1752
01:03:31,670 --> 01:03:29,839
so work on policy and things like that

1753
01:03:33,589 --> 01:03:31,680
but he worked in an office he never went

1754
01:03:35,349 --> 01:03:33,599
as far as i'm aware and i'm not trying

1755
01:03:37,270 --> 01:03:35,359
to denigrate you know nick pope here at

1756
01:03:39,750 --> 01:03:37,280
all but he never went into the field and

1757
01:03:42,150 --> 01:03:39,760
did you know on the spot investigations

1758
01:03:44,470 --> 01:03:42,160
and in terms of technical analysis uh

1759
01:03:45,750 --> 01:03:44,480
this other branch did that kind of stuff

1760
01:03:48,150 --> 01:03:45,760
because there are

1761
01:03:50,230 --> 01:03:48,160
documents to show that they actually did

1762
01:03:52,069 --> 01:03:50,240
a you know some kind of analysis on this

1763
01:03:54,150 --> 01:03:52,079
draw they came up with this drawing to

1764
01:03:56,630 --> 01:03:54,160
try and work out what the size of it was

1765
01:03:58,069 --> 01:03:56,640
compared with a harrier um to see

1766
01:04:00,230 --> 01:03:58,079
whether it was any kind of thing that

1767
01:04:02,069 --> 01:04:00,240
they knew about or just

1768
01:04:03,990 --> 01:04:02,079
what they would do anyway for an unknown

1769
01:04:06,950 --> 01:04:04,000
craft see what size it was see what

1770
01:04:08,630 --> 01:04:06,960
dimensions was all that yadda yadda um

1771
01:04:10,230 --> 01:04:08,640
but that wasn't nick pope he didn't do

1772
01:04:12,870 --> 01:04:10,240
that there was a there was this other

1773
01:04:14,470 --> 01:04:12,880
branch that did it so you can see that

1774
01:04:16,390 --> 01:04:14,480
information you can see also there's

1775
01:04:18,789 --> 01:04:16,400
some information around that line

1776
01:04:20,230 --> 01:04:18,799
drawing that they asked for squadron

1777
01:04:22,470 --> 01:04:20,240
because that's that's four squadron

1778
01:04:24,150 --> 01:04:22,480
operations as mentioned in this specific

1779
01:04:26,710 --> 01:04:24,160
document four squadron was actually a

1780
01:04:27,990 --> 01:04:26,720
unit that flew the harrier back in 1990

1781
01:04:30,069 --> 01:04:28,000
along with one squadron and three

1782
01:04:32,150 --> 01:04:30,079
squadron i've looked through their

1783
01:04:33,829 --> 01:04:32,160
operational records uh for that

1784
01:04:36,789 --> 01:04:33,839
particular month there's no mention of

1785
01:04:37,750 --> 01:04:36,799
this craft whatsoever surprise surprise

1786
01:04:39,510 --> 01:04:37,760
um

1787
01:04:40,630 --> 01:04:39,520
but when you look at some other

1788
01:04:43,190 --> 01:04:40,640
information

1789
01:04:44,710 --> 01:04:43,200
they realized or the mod realized and

1790
01:04:46,150 --> 01:04:44,720
this is not nick pope because i don't

1791
01:04:47,430 --> 01:04:46,160
think he was working for them at that

1792
01:04:50,230 --> 01:04:47,440
time i might be wrong about that i'm

1793
01:04:51,910 --> 01:04:50,240
pretty sure he wasn't in post at the

1794
01:04:55,349 --> 01:04:51,920
time this happened i think that might

1795
01:04:56,710 --> 01:04:55,359
have been afterwards um he

1796
01:04:57,750 --> 01:04:56,720
sorry whoever was dealing with the case

1797
01:04:59,750 --> 01:04:57,760
at the time i believe he was someone

1798
01:05:01,829 --> 01:04:59,760
called owen hartup i might be wrong

1799
01:05:04,470 --> 01:05:01,839
about that as well um but whoever

1800
01:05:06,630 --> 01:05:04,480
actually was dealing with it for the mod

1801
01:05:08,069 --> 01:05:06,640
they had a list of kind of things that

1802
01:05:09,670 --> 01:05:08,079
they would talk to journalists about

1803
01:05:11,510 --> 01:05:09,680
because there's a document in the in the

1804
01:05:14,150 --> 01:05:11,520
files about that as well that says you

1805
01:05:16,069 --> 01:05:14,160
know lines to take it actually says that

1806
01:05:17,109 --> 01:05:16,079
so they've got four or five lines about

1807
01:05:18,950 --> 01:05:17,119
um

1808
01:05:20,309 --> 01:05:18,960
what they should say about this incident

1809
01:05:22,390 --> 01:05:20,319
and then also there's a bit underneath

1810
01:05:23,990 --> 01:05:22,400
where it says if pressed so that means

1811
01:05:26,390 --> 01:05:24,000
if the journalists didn't take you know

1812
01:05:28,309 --> 01:05:26,400
no for an answer and went further this

1813
01:05:29,589 --> 01:05:28,319
is something else that would say

1814
01:05:31,349 --> 01:05:29,599
so you've got all that kind of thing you

1815
01:05:33,029 --> 01:05:31,359
know it's um it's quite weird to see

1816
01:05:35,029 --> 01:05:33,039
this kind of it's a it's effectively

1817
01:05:36,150 --> 01:05:35,039
like a pr exercise for them to come up

1818
01:05:37,270 --> 01:05:36,160
with all this stuff in advance and

1819
01:05:39,109 --> 01:05:37,280
saying you know this is what we're going

1820
01:05:41,029 --> 01:05:39,119
to tell you when you ask about it and if

1821
01:05:43,270 --> 01:05:41,039
you probe a little bit deeper we're

1822
01:05:45,270 --> 01:05:43,280
going to say this if we're pushed

1823
01:05:46,630 --> 01:05:45,280
so that's that's the kind of questioning

1824
01:05:47,829 --> 01:05:46,640
so that's the information that's in the

1825
01:05:49,029 --> 01:05:47,839
archives

1826
01:05:51,430 --> 01:05:49,039
now

1827
01:05:52,710 --> 01:05:51,440
the the witnesses never came forward

1828
01:05:54,630 --> 01:05:52,720
ever

1829
01:05:55,990 --> 01:05:54,640
but there's a reason for that and that's

1830
01:05:57,270 --> 01:05:56,000
probably doubt the fact that they were

1831
01:05:59,270 --> 01:05:57,280
you know poaching

1832
01:06:00,630 --> 01:05:59,280
and they may have been known in the area

1833
01:06:02,309 --> 01:06:00,640
the police might have been involved at

1834
01:06:04,069 --> 01:06:02,319
some stage chances are they just didn't

1835
01:06:05,430 --> 01:06:04,079
want the publicity you know they might

1836
01:06:07,829 --> 01:06:05,440
have thought was a good idea to go to a

1837
01:06:09,750 --> 01:06:07,839
newspaper with a story i'm presupposing

1838
01:06:11,510 --> 01:06:09,760
here of course to get some money for a

1839
01:06:13,670 --> 01:06:11,520
story you know because tabloids pay for

1840
01:06:16,069 --> 01:06:13,680
stories in the uk um they might have

1841
01:06:17,510 --> 01:06:16,079
thought they're on a quick book but it

1842
01:06:19,109 --> 01:06:17,520
might have backfired on them with all

1843
01:06:21,190 --> 01:06:19,119
the press attention that

1844
01:06:23,109 --> 01:06:21,200
you know came after this they probably

1845
01:06:24,870 --> 01:06:23,119
just want to keep quiet because a few

1846
01:06:26,470 --> 01:06:24,880
too many questions might have found out

1847
01:06:27,430 --> 01:06:26,480
why they were actually there for rather

1848
01:06:30,150 --> 01:06:27,440
than right

1849
01:06:31,750 --> 01:06:30,160
now but essentially they're living yeah

1850
01:06:34,230 --> 01:06:31,760
they don't want to risk that every time

1851
01:06:37,029 --> 01:06:34,240
you see this story it's two hikers they

1852
01:06:38,789 --> 01:06:37,039
weren't hikers there were poachers so

1853
01:06:41,349 --> 01:06:38,799
there's there's you there's your bit

1854
01:06:43,829 --> 01:06:41,359
straight away now in terms of the

1855
01:06:45,910 --> 01:06:43,839
locking away the records chris said 2075

1856
01:06:48,870 --> 01:06:45,920
it's actually 2076 they've been locked

1857
01:06:50,870 --> 01:06:48,880
too so damn it chrissy sorry i think

1858
01:06:52,150 --> 01:06:50,880
you're off

1859
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:52,160
one year

1860
01:06:54,630 --> 01:06:53,599
i'm i'm hopeful that it's going to come

1861
01:06:56,789 --> 01:06:54,640
out a year before

1862
01:06:58,549 --> 01:06:56,799
[Laughter]

1863
01:07:00,230 --> 01:06:58,559
always the she's the optimist on

1864
01:07:02,789 --> 01:07:00,240
something

1865
01:07:05,109 --> 01:07:02,799
yeah it's just a year just one year yeah

1866
01:07:07,029 --> 01:07:05,119
it's not a big don't worry um

1867
01:07:08,470 --> 01:07:07,039
it's a long time and the reason why

1868
01:07:09,990 --> 01:07:08,480
they're doing it until effectively the

1869
01:07:12,309 --> 01:07:10,000
witnesses are dead and anybody who's

1870
01:07:14,710 --> 01:07:12,319
gotten interested now is dead is because

1871
01:07:18,069 --> 01:07:14,720
of gdpr which is the data protection

1872
01:07:20,150 --> 01:07:18,079
regulations in this country um it'll be

1873
01:07:21,589 --> 01:07:20,160
chances are because it's names addresses

1874
01:07:23,589 --> 01:07:21,599
or the name and address of the witness

1875
01:07:26,230 --> 01:07:23,599
who made the statement

1876
01:07:28,789 --> 01:07:26,240
it'll be that information that's being

1877
01:07:30,309 --> 01:07:28,799
kept under wraps because now

1878
01:07:32,870 --> 01:07:30,319
um you know that kind of information is

1879
01:07:34,470 --> 01:07:32,880
considered um you know really secret you

1880
01:07:36,549 --> 01:07:34,480
can't divulge it

1881
01:07:38,630 --> 01:07:36,559
under very specific circumstances and

1882
01:07:39,910 --> 01:07:38,640
this isn't one of them uh it's not

1883
01:07:41,270 --> 01:07:39,920
considered to be under the national

1884
01:07:42,390 --> 01:07:41,280
interest sort of thing so it can't be

1885
01:07:44,549 --> 01:07:42,400
released that way

1886
01:07:46,309 --> 01:07:44,559
uh there's a whole lot of reasons why

1887
01:07:48,230 --> 01:07:46,319
it's kept under wraps i used to work for

1888
01:07:49,270 --> 01:07:48,240
our national health service in the uk

1889
01:07:51,670 --> 01:07:49,280
you know there was stuff that we

1890
01:07:54,230 --> 01:07:51,680
couldn't divulge to people unless under

1891
01:07:56,390 --> 01:07:54,240
specific circumstances so yeah i'm sure

1892
01:07:57,990 --> 01:07:56,400
there's you know similar uh laws

1893
01:07:59,270 --> 01:07:58,000
regarding data operate in the united

1894
01:08:00,309 --> 01:07:59,280
states and in other countries around the

1895
01:08:02,150 --> 01:08:00,319
world for people who are listening to

1896
01:08:04,309 --> 01:08:02,160
this so you know there's reasons why

1897
01:08:06,230 --> 01:08:04,319
that happens it's a mundane explanation

1898
01:08:07,990 --> 01:08:06,240
i know people are thinking oh well it's

1899
01:08:09,589 --> 01:08:08,000
the photographs which are being kept

1900
01:08:11,349 --> 01:08:09,599
under wraps no

1901
01:08:13,510 --> 01:08:11,359
the photographs are probably you know in

1902
01:08:14,950 --> 01:08:13,520
circulation somewhere people have you

1903
01:08:17,990 --> 01:08:14,960
know some people have seen them over the

1904
01:08:20,070 --> 01:08:18,000
years um that much i know but in terms

1905
01:08:21,910 --> 01:08:20,080
of them coming to light there'll be

1906
01:08:24,709 --> 01:08:21,920
reasons why you know they haven't been

1907
01:08:25,990 --> 01:08:24,719
officially released but i guess in terms

1908
01:08:27,990 --> 01:08:26,000
of a legal reason why you'd keep

1909
01:08:30,149 --> 01:08:28,000
something under wraps until 2076 it's

1910
01:08:31,829 --> 01:08:30,159
because of the names and dresses that's

1911
01:08:34,390 --> 01:08:31,839
the only reason unless there's some

1912
01:08:36,550 --> 01:08:34,400
gigantic cover-up but i'm pretty sure

1913
01:08:39,030 --> 01:08:36,560
it's more just a lot it's the fact it's

1914
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:39,040
it's just the names and addresses so

1915
01:08:43,269 --> 01:08:40,960
unfortunately 32 years later that's

1916
01:08:44,550 --> 01:08:43,279
where we are with this case now in terms

1917
01:08:47,860 --> 01:08:44,560
of what it was

1918
01:08:52,149 --> 01:08:50,149
[Laughter]

1919
01:08:55,189 --> 01:08:52,159
don't don't don't break my heart here

1920
01:08:58,550 --> 01:08:57,269
chances are it's not ufo

1921
01:09:00,070 --> 01:08:58,560
in terms of ufo because it's

1922
01:09:02,950 --> 01:09:00,080
unidentified because nobody really knows

1923
01:09:05,349 --> 01:09:02,960
what it is at the moment yeah okay but

1924
01:09:06,470 --> 01:09:05,359
it is probably some kind of secret u.s

1925
01:09:09,749 --> 01:09:06,480
tech

1926
01:09:11,430 --> 01:09:09,759
the harriers were probably escorting it

1927
01:09:13,910 --> 01:09:11,440
so people who are building their hopes

1928
01:09:17,669 --> 01:09:13,920
up in terms of this being some wonderful

1929
01:09:18,870 --> 01:09:17,679
the best ever ufo case in britain

1930
01:09:20,149 --> 01:09:18,880
probably not

1931
01:09:22,390 --> 01:09:20,159
there's been you know there's some

1932
01:09:24,709 --> 01:09:22,400
information out there too that's already

1933
01:09:27,189 --> 01:09:24,719
out there in depending where you look

1934
01:09:29,110 --> 01:09:27,199
that suggests that the uk got in touch

1935
01:09:31,110 --> 01:09:29,120
with the pentagon straight afterwards to

1936
01:09:33,030 --> 01:09:31,120
find out what was going on and the

1937
01:09:34,709 --> 01:09:33,040
pentagon got in touch with britain to

1938
01:09:36,630 --> 01:09:34,719
find out what was going on and there

1939
01:09:38,950 --> 01:09:36,640
might have been a bit of kind of rgb in

1940
01:09:41,829 --> 01:09:38,960
terms of who was to blame

1941
01:09:44,390 --> 01:09:41,839
and maybe are you operating secret craft

1942
01:09:45,430 --> 01:09:44,400
you know over our space or or have you

1943
01:09:46,870 --> 01:09:45,440
brits got something that you're not

1944
01:09:49,430 --> 01:09:46,880
telling us about this kind of stuff

1945
01:09:51,669 --> 01:09:49,440
going on um so i think there's a you

1946
01:09:54,070 --> 01:09:51,679
know there's a little bit of kind of

1947
01:09:55,430 --> 01:09:54,080
some secrets kind of stuff going where

1948
01:09:56,870 --> 01:09:55,440
if the americans were testing something

1949
01:09:58,870 --> 01:09:56,880
over uk airspace and they weren't

1950
01:10:00,790 --> 01:09:58,880
telling us that would be a big big

1951
01:10:03,110 --> 01:10:00,800
problem you know and if that was found

1952
01:10:04,390 --> 01:10:03,120
out then oh yeah it'd be hell to pay it

1953
01:10:06,390 --> 01:10:04,400
might have caused a bit of a kind of a

1954
01:10:08,709 --> 01:10:06,400
bit of a stink to you know against the

1955
01:10:11,270 --> 01:10:08,719
respective militaries but it's all been

1956
01:10:13,270 --> 01:10:11,280
smoothed out since then but that crafts

1957
01:10:14,870 --> 01:10:13,280
but we're talking before about craft not

1958
01:10:16,790 --> 01:10:14,880
being unveiled after a certain period of

1959
01:10:18,390 --> 01:10:16,800
time nobody's come forward from the

1960
01:10:20,070 --> 01:10:18,400
americans to say we've got this

1961
01:10:23,030 --> 01:10:20,080
technology but there could be reasons

1962
01:10:25,350 --> 01:10:23,040
why they're not doing that for um but in

1963
01:10:27,750 --> 01:10:25,360
terms of you know a more

1964
01:10:30,229 --> 01:10:27,760
otherworldly explanation

1965
01:10:31,110 --> 01:10:30,239
i don't think so not in this particular

1966
01:10:32,790 --> 01:10:31,120
case

1967
01:10:34,470 --> 01:10:32,800
it seems with everything that's gone

1968
01:10:36,310 --> 01:10:34,480
around it and this talk about this kind

1969
01:10:39,110 --> 01:10:36,320
of interplay between the pentagon and

1970
01:10:40,870 --> 01:10:39,120
the in the uh the mod and some other

1971
01:10:43,110 --> 01:10:40,880
things that

1972
01:10:44,790 --> 01:10:43,120
there's probably a more rational

1973
01:10:46,070 --> 01:10:44,800
explanation behind it

1974
01:10:48,310 --> 01:10:46,080
it's just that the fact that they're

1975
01:10:50,149 --> 01:10:48,320
unwilling to actually divulge the

1976
01:10:52,470 --> 01:10:50,159
technology they've got in this

1977
01:10:54,550 --> 01:10:52,480
particular platform and bearing in mind

1978
01:10:56,550 --> 01:10:54,560
that two years later off the west coast

1979
01:10:58,390 --> 01:10:56,560
of america there were reports of this

1980
01:11:00,070 --> 01:10:58,400
thing that using a call sign called gas

1981
01:11:02,390 --> 01:11:00,080
pipe which was coming in from high

1982
01:11:04,390 --> 01:11:02,400
altitude and flying into landings you

1983
01:11:06,870 --> 01:11:04,400
know hundreds of miles away and it was

1984
01:11:08,470 --> 01:11:06,880
dropping down like a stone 5000 feet a

1985
01:11:11,030 --> 01:11:08,480
minute kind of thing it was coming in

1986
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:11,040
from 80 000 feet but it had a radio call

1987
01:11:15,270 --> 01:11:12,800
sign and then this thing that crashed a

1988
01:11:16,709 --> 01:11:15,280
bus come down in 1994 on the runway

1989
01:11:18,550 --> 01:11:16,719
because it's nose wheel collapse or

1990
01:11:21,669 --> 01:11:18,560
something which may or may not be an

1991
01:11:23,910 --> 01:11:21,679
av-6 aerial vehicle 6 the astra

1992
01:11:26,950 --> 01:11:23,920
prototype which again is a semi-cit a

1993
01:11:28,950 --> 01:11:26,960
very very secret lockheed platform

1994
01:11:31,110 --> 01:11:28,960
who knows what the americans at that

1995
01:11:33,270 --> 01:11:31,120
time were experimenting with and maybe

1996
01:11:35,189 --> 01:11:33,280
still are or maybe have

1997
01:11:36,550 --> 01:11:35,199
you know tried maybe it's failed for

1998
01:11:38,550 --> 01:11:36,560
some reason and they've shelved it and

1999
01:11:40,470 --> 01:11:38,560
moved on the swing even better there's

2000
01:11:42,310 --> 01:11:40,480
reasons why they might keep this stuff

2001
01:11:44,709 --> 01:11:42,320
under wraps and of course at the moment

2002
01:11:45,750 --> 01:11:44,719
all this stuff going on in ukraine it's

2003
01:11:47,110 --> 01:11:45,760
the last thing they're going to do at

2004
01:11:48,950 --> 01:11:47,120
the moment is tell people what they've

2005
01:11:50,630 --> 01:11:48,960
got because you know why would you in a

2006
01:11:52,630 --> 01:11:50,640
situation like this

2007
01:11:54,390 --> 01:11:52,640
absolutely well you know what this this

2008
01:11:56,070 --> 01:11:54,400
kind of reminds me of two

2009
01:11:59,189 --> 01:11:56,080
is um and this kind of relates to a

2010
01:12:01,350 --> 01:11:59,199
question christopher plane asked um is

2011
01:12:03,750 --> 01:12:01,360
it commonplace for us dod to test tech

2012
01:12:05,110 --> 01:12:03,760
in the uk um i just want to piggyback

2013
01:12:07,590 --> 01:12:05,120
off of that by saying you know during

2014
01:12:10,149 --> 01:12:07,600
the rendelsham forest incident whatever

2015
01:12:12,630 --> 01:12:10,159
that craft was that landed in the forest

2016
01:12:15,430 --> 01:12:12,640
and shot beams down into the you know

2017
01:12:17,750 --> 01:12:15,440
the weapon storage areas um

2018
01:12:19,669 --> 01:12:17,760
the uk was not aware that the us was

2019
01:12:22,229 --> 01:12:19,679
housing nuclear ordinance at the base at

2020
01:12:24,149 --> 01:12:22,239
the time this was a secret we had that

2021
01:12:26,390 --> 01:12:24,159
we put those weapons there you know i'm

2022
01:12:28,070 --> 01:12:26,400
sure they had inklings that yeah of

2023
01:12:30,149 --> 01:12:28,080
course it's the cold war we got to have

2024
01:12:32,870 --> 01:12:30,159
some sort of nuclear protection but they

2025
01:12:33,669 --> 01:12:32,880
had a ton of nuclear ordinance that they

2026
01:12:36,630 --> 01:12:33,679
had

2027
01:12:38,630 --> 01:12:36,640
somehow snuck into the um you know the

2028
01:12:40,870 --> 01:12:38,640
storage areas there and of course those

2029
01:12:43,270 --> 01:12:40,880
were the areas where this ufo supposedly

2030
01:12:45,590 --> 01:12:43,280
was seen hovering over and that seems to

2031
01:12:47,030 --> 01:12:45,600
be a big reason why the rendelsham

2032
01:12:48,790 --> 01:12:47,040
forest case is

2033
01:12:51,189 --> 01:12:48,800
such a big deal and there was such a big

2034
01:12:53,350 --> 01:12:51,199
cover-up is not so much even the ufo per

2035
01:12:55,590 --> 01:12:53,360
se it was the fact that we were

2036
01:12:58,870 --> 01:12:55,600
against treaty at the time the u.s of

2037
01:13:00,709 --> 01:12:58,880
having these weapons there so um i guess

2038
01:13:02,310 --> 01:13:00,719
piggy backing off of that graham why

2039
01:13:04,390 --> 01:13:02,320
would the us be

2040
01:13:06,229 --> 01:13:04,400
testing something over in the uk during

2041
01:13:08,390 --> 01:13:06,239
this time i mean we have such a good

2042
01:13:11,110 --> 01:13:08,400
relationship with you guys there when it

2043
01:13:13,030 --> 01:13:11,120
comes to military and in intelligence

2044
01:13:14,950 --> 01:13:13,040
with the five eyes and everything

2045
01:13:17,350 --> 01:13:14,960
why would we be doing that is it because

2046
01:13:19,189 --> 01:13:17,360
calvin is such a remote area and where

2047
01:13:20,870 --> 01:13:19,199
we wanted to test it out there we got

2048
01:13:22,229 --> 01:13:20,880
millions of remote areas in the u.s we

2049
01:13:24,149 --> 01:13:22,239
could have been doing this it's not

2050
01:13:27,669 --> 01:13:24,159
really remote that's the thing you know

2051
01:13:29,910 --> 01:13:27,679
it on its own calvin is semi-remote but

2052
01:13:31,270 --> 01:13:29,920
in terms of britain but actually it's

2053
01:13:34,070 --> 01:13:31,280
you know there's no way in britain which

2054
01:13:35,669 --> 01:13:34,080
is really remote um in terms of airspace

2055
01:13:37,510 --> 01:13:35,679
and in terms of population there are

2056
01:13:39,750 --> 01:13:37,520
people live all over the place so people

2057
01:13:41,110 --> 01:13:39,760
would see it if it flew over they might

2058
01:13:42,310 --> 01:13:41,120
not report it but they certainly see

2059
01:13:44,149 --> 01:13:42,320
them but they might mistake it for

2060
01:13:45,669 --> 01:13:44,159
something else who knows the americans

2061
01:13:47,750 --> 01:13:45,679
have certainly tested secret technology

2062
01:13:50,870 --> 01:13:47,760
in britain i mean the stories of um the

2063
01:13:52,550 --> 01:13:50,880
f-117 flying into into bases in scotland

2064
01:13:54,390 --> 01:13:52,560
uh during the 1980s before it was

2065
01:13:56,790 --> 01:13:54,400
unveiled to the public the stories of

2066
01:13:59,270 --> 01:13:56,800
the b-2 being flown over over uh uk

2067
01:14:02,229 --> 01:13:59,280
airspace before it was it was unveiled

2068
01:14:04,870 --> 01:14:02,239
as well so no doubt other things will

2069
01:14:07,830 --> 01:14:04,880
have been used in the uk airspace with

2070
01:14:09,590 --> 01:14:07,840
or without our knowledge uk have

2071
01:14:11,270 --> 01:14:09,600
tested things out of a place called

2072
01:14:12,390 --> 01:14:11,280
wharton which is in lancashire it's a

2073
01:14:14,709 --> 01:14:12,400
british air it used to be a british

2074
01:14:17,030 --> 01:14:14,719
aerospace would be a systems uh base

2075
01:14:19,030 --> 01:14:17,040
where they've tested various craft over

2076
01:14:22,950 --> 01:14:19,040
the years some unmanned someone not you

2077
01:14:24,790 --> 01:14:22,960
know some some um manned so yeah things

2078
01:14:26,550 --> 01:14:24,800
happen now whether the question is

2079
01:14:27,510 --> 01:14:26,560
whether or not your prior notice was

2080
01:14:28,790 --> 01:14:27,520
given

2081
01:14:30,550 --> 01:14:28,800
to who knows

2082
01:14:32,390 --> 01:14:30,560
was the note was given somewhere but it

2083
01:14:34,310 --> 01:14:32,400
got forgotten about or was it did it go

2084
01:14:36,070 --> 01:14:34,320
at the wrong place or did the person who

2085
01:14:37,830 --> 01:14:36,080
got it or the department who get it not

2086
01:14:39,669 --> 01:14:37,840
tell anybody else you know you just

2087
01:14:41,669 --> 01:14:39,679
don't know because all these kind of

2088
01:14:43,910 --> 01:14:41,679
machinations never make you never see

2089
01:14:46,310 --> 01:14:43,920
the light of day do they so we may never

2090
01:14:47,990 --> 01:14:46,320
get to know that part of the story but

2091
01:14:50,070 --> 01:14:48,000
it seems that there was some kind of

2092
01:14:52,709 --> 01:14:50,080
battles and forwards about is this yours

2093
01:14:54,390 --> 01:14:52,719
no is this yours kind of thing um

2094
01:14:56,149 --> 01:14:54,400
neither side seemed to know or whoever

2095
01:14:58,229 --> 01:14:56,159
was doing the questioning seemed to know

2096
01:14:59,830 --> 01:14:58,239
whose it was now maybe the right the

2097
01:15:01,990 --> 01:14:59,840
wrong people were asking the questions

2098
01:15:04,390 --> 01:15:02,000
to the wrong people as well so you know

2099
01:15:07,270 --> 01:15:04,400
it's one of those minefields all we know

2100
01:15:09,830 --> 01:15:07,280
is that aircraft was seen we know the

2101
01:15:11,430 --> 01:15:09,840
rough dimensions and shape of it and we

2102
01:15:13,750 --> 01:15:11,440
know that there were aircraft involved

2103
01:15:16,390 --> 01:15:13,760
with it but beyond that we know very

2104
01:15:18,390 --> 01:15:16,400
little um now the only people who are

2105
01:15:20,390 --> 01:15:18,400
going to be able to tell that if it is a

2106
01:15:22,390 --> 01:15:20,400
us craft are the americans when they

2107
01:15:23,750 --> 01:15:22,400
come clean about it but if it turns out

2108
01:15:25,350 --> 01:15:23,760
that's not the case then you're all

2109
01:15:28,310 --> 01:15:25,360
better off and it could be it could be

2110
01:15:29,830 --> 01:15:28,320
something otherworldly but i think

2111
01:15:32,550 --> 01:15:29,840
at the time there were all these other

2112
01:15:34,390 --> 01:15:32,560
things being seen um both across your

2113
01:15:36,790 --> 01:15:34,400
side of the pond in hours

2114
01:15:38,709 --> 01:15:36,800
that lead men you know people and other

2115
01:15:40,470 --> 01:15:38,719
people like me to suspect that this was

2116
01:15:42,229 --> 01:15:40,480
probably something that the americans

2117
01:15:43,750 --> 01:15:42,239
just don't want to divulge at this

2118
01:15:45,669 --> 01:15:43,760
particular time

2119
01:15:47,510 --> 01:15:45,679
graham what was the size again can you

2120
01:15:49,270 --> 01:15:47,520
um did we like dimensions because i read

2121
01:15:50,229 --> 01:15:49,280
that it was like a hundred

2122
01:15:52,390 --> 01:15:50,239
feet

2123
01:15:53,990 --> 01:15:52,400
but the reason why i asked that is

2124
01:15:55,910 --> 01:15:54,000
because i'm curious to see what's in the

2125
01:15:58,790 --> 01:15:55,920
data bank then if we look at like this

2126
01:16:01,990 --> 01:15:58,800
actually being us tech then the question

2127
01:16:03,750 --> 01:16:02,000
is around 90 you know the 90s up to 97

2128
01:16:05,830 --> 01:16:03,760
um we look at all different types of

2129
01:16:06,790 --> 01:16:05,840
crafts and shapes that we've seen in the

2130
01:16:08,630 --> 01:16:06,800
states

2131
01:16:10,470 --> 01:16:08,640
if this is american tech then why aren't

2132
01:16:12,790 --> 01:16:10,480
some of those then as well within the

2133
01:16:14,870 --> 01:16:12,800
same time frame

2134
01:16:16,790 --> 01:16:14,880
yeah the there's no there's no hard and

2135
01:16:17,990 --> 01:16:16,800
fast estimate on how big it is again

2136
01:16:19,350 --> 01:16:18,000
it's one of these things if you don't

2137
01:16:21,189 --> 01:16:19,360
know what it is

2138
01:16:22,790 --> 01:16:21,199
you don't know how far away it is and

2139
01:16:24,709 --> 01:16:22,800
therefore because you don't know how far

2140
01:16:26,390 --> 01:16:24,719
away it is you know how big it is and

2141
01:16:28,950 --> 01:16:26,400
that's something that's plagued ufo

2142
01:16:30,390 --> 01:16:28,960
reporting since the 1940s

2143
01:16:32,790 --> 01:16:30,400
because you know if you've got a light

2144
01:16:35,030 --> 01:16:32,800
or you've got a craft or a disk but you

2145
01:16:37,510 --> 01:16:35,040
don't know how big the disc is it could

2146
01:16:39,830 --> 01:16:37,520
be 10 feet away and be a meter across

2147
01:16:41,189 --> 01:16:39,840
you know i'm mixing up my message that

2148
01:16:43,350 --> 01:16:41,199
you know what i mean or it could be a

2149
01:16:45,270 --> 01:16:43,360
mile away it could be enormous or it

2150
01:16:47,510 --> 01:16:45,280
could be 10 miles away and even bigger

2151
01:16:50,310 --> 01:16:47,520
so until you know what something is but

2152
01:16:51,750 --> 01:16:50,320
if you were looking at an f-15 you would

2153
01:16:54,390 --> 01:16:51,760
know roughly what the dimensions of an

2154
01:16:56,310 --> 01:16:54,400
f-15 are therefore wherever you see it

2155
01:16:58,470 --> 01:16:56,320
you know how far away it is but with

2156
01:17:00,709 --> 01:16:58,480
something you don't know what it is it's

2157
01:17:03,110 --> 01:17:00,719
almost impossible to try and work it out

2158
01:17:04,950 --> 01:17:03,120
unless it's interacting with something

2159
01:17:07,030 --> 01:17:04,960
so unless you can see it directly over a

2160
01:17:08,790 --> 01:17:07,040
bridge or in front of a mountain where

2161
01:17:11,110 --> 01:17:08,800
you know what the distance is whereas in

2162
01:17:12,630 --> 01:17:11,120
this particular case it was in mid-air

2163
01:17:14,870 --> 01:17:12,640
now it may have been close enough that

2164
01:17:15,990 --> 01:17:14,880
you get some sense of how big it is and

2165
01:17:17,990 --> 01:17:16,000
i think that's where the measurements

2166
01:17:19,750 --> 01:17:18,000
come from but in terms of being able to

2167
01:17:22,470 --> 01:17:19,760
accurately say look it was 100 foot long

2168
01:17:25,030 --> 01:17:22,480
or it was 50 feet long i think that's

2169
01:17:27,270 --> 01:17:25,040
still to be decided

2170
01:17:29,590 --> 01:17:27,280
that's fair man yeah um chrissy's

2171
01:17:31,830 --> 01:17:29,600
reconnecting at the moment i hope she

2172
01:17:34,149 --> 01:17:31,840
caught the end of your answer there um

2173
01:17:35,430 --> 01:17:34,159
there you are i love technology it just

2174
01:17:37,270 --> 01:17:35,440
keeps

2175
01:17:39,430 --> 01:17:37,280
you i cannot hear you but i didn't hear

2176
01:17:41,590 --> 01:17:39,440
the last part of that

2177
01:17:43,110 --> 01:17:41,600
chris plane says was the calvin incident

2178
01:17:45,270 --> 01:17:43,120
more or less right after the belgian

2179
01:17:48,790 --> 01:17:45,280
wave it was actually in the middle of it

2180
01:17:50,709 --> 01:17:48,800
right it was 89 to 91-ish

2181
01:17:53,270 --> 01:17:50,719
um the belgian wave and sort of slap

2182
01:17:55,030 --> 01:17:53,280
bang in the middle of it and chances are

2183
01:17:56,870 --> 01:17:55,040
whatever was in the belgian wave may

2184
01:17:58,550 --> 01:17:56,880
have been the same thing or maybe

2185
01:18:00,470 --> 01:17:58,560
something similar

2186
01:18:02,630 --> 01:18:00,480
right man and i'm you know even looking

2187
01:18:04,950 --> 01:18:02,640
at the rendering again i'll pull it up

2188
01:18:06,790 --> 01:18:04,960
you know that's pretty even if it's just

2189
01:18:08,950 --> 01:18:06,800
surrendering if this is based on an

2190
01:18:10,070 --> 01:18:08,960
actual photo that is pretty damn low to

2191
01:18:12,870 --> 01:18:10,080
the ground

2192
01:18:16,790 --> 01:18:12,880
um so you do have to wonder during

2193
01:18:19,110 --> 01:18:16,800
belgium wave um this is early 90s uh are

2194
01:18:20,390 --> 01:18:19,120
we dealing with stealth technology you

2195
01:18:23,350 --> 01:18:20,400
know low

2196
01:18:25,830 --> 01:18:23,360
and quiet that's what this thing screams

2197
01:18:27,990 --> 01:18:25,840
to me um it was very low and it was

2198
01:18:30,070 --> 01:18:28,000
possibly very quiet um

2199
01:18:31,990 --> 01:18:30,080
stealth blimp technology maybe even i

2200
01:18:33,990 --> 01:18:32,000
don't know i don't know but i do find

2201
01:18:35,990 --> 01:18:34,000
uh chris's question interesting don't

2202
01:18:38,310 --> 01:18:36,000
get me wrong i'm not suggesting for a

2203
01:18:40,709 --> 01:18:38,320
minute it's definitely us tech because

2204
01:18:42,550 --> 01:18:40,719
i'm not aware of anything they've got

2205
01:18:44,310 --> 01:18:42,560
which you can do the things that things

2206
01:18:45,669 --> 01:18:44,320
reportedly do you know hover in place

2207
01:18:46,870 --> 01:18:45,679
for how many minutes and then shoot

2208
01:18:48,550 --> 01:18:46,880
straight upwards

2209
01:18:51,030 --> 01:18:48,560
right yeah i think 10 minutes or

2210
01:18:53,030 --> 01:18:51,040
something but at the same time i can't

2211
01:18:54,630 --> 01:18:53,040
rule it out either because we don't know

2212
01:18:55,669 --> 01:18:54,640
what the capabilities are it's one of

2213
01:18:57,510 --> 01:18:55,679
those things where we're just in the

2214
01:18:59,030 --> 01:18:57,520
dark with it you know it could be either

2215
01:19:01,750 --> 01:18:59,040
it could be something else entirely as

2216
01:19:03,430 --> 01:19:01,760
well so you know who knows but

2217
01:19:04,550 --> 01:19:03,440
i think bear in mind the time and some

2218
01:19:06,630 --> 01:19:04,560
of the things that we've seen at the

2219
01:19:08,149 --> 01:19:06,640
time you know i'm leaning towards it

2220
01:19:10,470 --> 01:19:08,159
being something more mundane and

2221
01:19:12,790 --> 01:19:10,480
something um explainable in terms of uf

2222
01:19:14,470 --> 01:19:12,800
technology but i might be wrong on that

2223
01:19:16,790 --> 01:19:14,480
you know i've been wrong before another

2224
01:19:18,950 --> 01:19:16,800
thing so i could be wrong on this

2225
01:19:21,270 --> 01:19:18,960
how dare you how dare you well

2226
01:19:23,590 --> 01:19:21,280
um kind of closing this part of it then

2227
01:19:25,350 --> 01:19:23,600
guys um what does graham think about the

2228
01:19:28,310 --> 01:19:25,360
prospect of the phoenix lights having

2229
01:19:29,750 --> 01:19:28,320
been a huge v-shaped us-made dirigible i

2230
01:19:31,510 --> 01:19:29,760
mean i've been doing a lot of digging

2231
01:19:33,030 --> 01:19:31,520
lately into phoenix lights which

2232
01:19:35,270 --> 01:19:33,040
hopefully will make it to your

2233
01:19:37,430 --> 01:19:35,280
television screen soon um i'll have more

2234
01:19:39,830 --> 01:19:37,440
news on that but um yeah what do you

2235
01:19:41,350 --> 01:19:39,840
think graham um phoenix likes what are

2236
01:19:42,790 --> 01:19:41,360
your thoughts on that incident again

2237
01:19:44,870 --> 01:19:42,800
it's one of those things that it's it's

2238
01:19:47,030 --> 01:19:44,880
possible and i'm not sure how remotely

2239
01:19:48,390 --> 01:19:47,040
possible it is but just saying that

2240
01:19:50,470 --> 01:19:48,400
thing and how immense it what it's

2241
01:19:52,950 --> 01:19:50,480
supposed to have been how large it was

2242
01:19:56,149 --> 01:19:52,960
and the it was a v wasn't it it wasn't a

2243
01:19:58,310 --> 01:19:56,159
triangle if i'm if i'm right so that

2244
01:19:59,590 --> 01:19:58,320
seems unbelievable in terms of being

2245
01:20:01,270 --> 01:19:59,600
able to construct something like that

2246
01:20:04,310 --> 01:20:01,280
can fly and why would you have a

2247
01:20:07,430 --> 01:20:04,320
dirigible which is l-shaped or v-shaped

2248
01:20:09,030 --> 01:20:07,440
it doesn't make much sense

2249
01:20:10,149 --> 01:20:09,040
fair enough yep

2250
01:20:11,430 --> 01:20:10,159
to me anyway i mean i don't know what

2251
01:20:13,030 --> 01:20:11,440
other people i might be completely wrong

2252
01:20:16,550 --> 01:20:13,040
again but it just seems that it's very

2253
01:20:17,750 --> 01:20:16,560
strange shape of a platform to have but

2254
01:20:20,310 --> 01:20:17,760
who knows somebody might have come up

2255
01:20:22,550 --> 01:20:20,320
with yeah this is the best configuration

2256
01:20:24,870 --> 01:20:22,560
for something that needs to do this job

2257
01:20:26,709 --> 01:20:24,880
and here we are but yeah it could be

2258
01:20:28,149 --> 01:20:26,719
something completely different

2259
01:20:29,590 --> 01:20:28,159
exactly and we've got to keep in mind

2260
01:20:31,990 --> 01:20:29,600
there were supposedly two different

2261
01:20:33,590 --> 01:20:32,000
events that night so which could have

2262
01:20:35,510 --> 01:20:33,600
been the dirigible and which couldn't

2263
01:20:37,510 --> 01:20:35,520
have or vice versa who

2264
01:20:39,750 --> 01:20:37,520
truly knows um what we're dealing with

2265
01:20:40,790 --> 01:20:39,760
sorry chrissy please no i was just no i

2266
01:20:42,790 --> 01:20:40,800
was just going to say i'm like well

2267
01:20:44,629 --> 01:20:42,800
isn't there a conversation too of a of a

2268
01:20:46,229 --> 01:20:44,639
craft that was supposed to be a tech you

2269
01:20:48,470 --> 01:20:46,239
know we're saying the phoenix lights was

2270
01:20:50,070 --> 01:20:48,480
obviously anomalous but there was

2271
01:20:52,550 --> 01:20:50,080
supposed to be american tech that did

2272
01:20:54,149 --> 01:20:52,560
have a shape similar i think around the

2273
01:20:55,510 --> 01:20:54,159
same time or a little bit before that

2274
01:20:57,030 --> 01:20:55,520
they said that they were testing and

2275
01:20:58,149 --> 01:20:57,040
that was classified at one point in time

2276
01:21:00,470 --> 01:20:58,159
i forget the

2277
01:21:01,750 --> 01:21:00,480
the the craft name though but

2278
01:21:03,350 --> 01:21:01,760
again we don't know that's why i was

2279
01:21:05,030 --> 01:21:03,360
wondering about size and shape because

2280
01:21:07,030 --> 01:21:05,040
the first thing that popped into my mind

2281
01:21:08,709 --> 01:21:07,040
was the phoenix lights too yeah

2282
01:21:11,510 --> 01:21:08,719
interesting yep

2283
01:21:13,830 --> 01:21:11,520
connections to be made always um i've

2284
01:21:16,550 --> 01:21:13,840
got one question here from twitter and

2285
01:21:18,550 --> 01:21:16,560
then one starred um to kind of wrap

2286
01:21:20,470 --> 01:21:18,560
things up guys if if that's okay with

2287
01:21:21,990 --> 01:21:20,480
you let me go back to the live chat i'll

2288
01:21:24,790 --> 01:21:22,000
just i'll just answer chris's last

2289
01:21:26,870 --> 01:21:24,800
question if i can please he says yeah

2290
01:21:28,709 --> 01:21:26,880
um because the us marine corps operated

2291
01:21:30,950 --> 01:21:28,719
harry's back then

2292
01:21:32,870 --> 01:21:30,960
they're 88

2293
01:21:34,390 --> 01:21:32,880
interesting yeah you know that reminds

2294
01:21:36,229 --> 01:21:34,400
me too of like

2295
01:21:37,990 --> 01:21:36,239
you know the tehran ufo incident the

2296
01:21:39,990 --> 01:21:38,000
reason the us was so interested in that

2297
01:21:42,310 --> 01:21:40,000
event is because we were leasing our

2298
01:21:44,229 --> 01:21:42,320
planes to iran so they wanted to know

2299
01:21:47,590 --> 01:21:44,239
what the hell is this thing that like

2300
01:21:50,229 --> 01:21:47,600
jammed our radars and our communications

2301
01:21:53,270 --> 01:21:50,239
right boom boom thank you thank you

2302
01:21:55,430 --> 01:21:53,280
graeme i'm glad you said it

2303
01:21:57,750 --> 01:21:55,440
uh russia is kind of a hot hot button

2304
01:21:58,550 --> 01:21:57,760
issue right now but we could talk about

2305
01:22:00,709 --> 01:21:58,560
that

2306
01:22:01,590 --> 01:22:00,719
on a separate occasion let's go to our

2307
01:22:03,990 --> 01:22:01,600
um

2308
01:22:06,470 --> 01:22:04,000
our start question here to wrap things

2309
01:22:08,149 --> 01:22:06,480
up i like this one eve asks what does

2310
01:22:10,149 --> 01:22:08,159
graham think about the prospect oh nope

2311
01:22:11,669 --> 01:22:10,159
that wasn't the one i apologize um we

2312
01:22:13,830 --> 01:22:11,679
already answered that uh christopher

2313
01:22:16,229 --> 01:22:13,840
plane graham are there records of nazi

2314
01:22:18,629 --> 01:22:16,239
or japanese fighter pilots encountering

2315
01:22:21,189 --> 01:22:18,639
foo fighters or were they all um from

2316
01:22:23,990 --> 01:22:21,199
western aviators anything in your

2317
01:22:25,510 --> 01:22:24,000
research touch on that fair enough so if

2318
01:22:27,669 --> 01:22:25,520
um if i had a pound for every time

2319
01:22:29,110 --> 01:22:27,679
somebody said the germans saw them too

2320
01:22:31,430 --> 01:22:29,120
i'll be rich

2321
01:22:32,629 --> 01:22:31,440
however i thought that too

2322
01:22:35,030 --> 01:22:32,639
was i wrong

2323
01:22:36,950 --> 01:22:35,040
well you're right and you're wrong okay

2324
01:22:40,149 --> 01:22:36,960
so effectively when you look through the

2325
01:22:41,830 --> 01:22:40,159
records you can't find records in terms

2326
01:22:43,590 --> 01:22:41,840
of what you can find out from the

2327
01:22:45,590 --> 01:22:43,600
americans and the british point of view

2328
01:22:47,910 --> 01:22:45,600
so there's not really squadron records

2329
01:22:50,870 --> 01:22:47,920
or pilot testimony there are a few

2330
01:22:53,910 --> 01:22:50,880
isolated cases but the lack of detail

2331
01:22:56,070 --> 01:22:53,920
and they lack context so they're very

2332
01:22:57,910 --> 01:22:56,080
sparse in terms of numbers but even

2333
01:23:00,310 --> 01:22:57,920
sparser in terms of detail when you do

2334
01:23:03,110 --> 01:23:00,320
find them so i do have some of these in

2335
01:23:05,350 --> 01:23:03,120
the book in terms of german pilots and

2336
01:23:06,709 --> 01:23:05,360
and cases from the german civilians on

2337
01:23:08,870 --> 01:23:06,719
the ground seeing things during world

2338
01:23:11,750 --> 01:23:08,880
war ii but the chapter is very brief

2339
01:23:13,430 --> 01:23:11,760
because they simply aren't the cases now

2340
01:23:15,830 --> 01:23:13,440
you have to remember that after the war

2341
01:23:17,430 --> 01:23:15,840
the the the war itself wasn't a you know

2342
01:23:21,430 --> 01:23:17,440
a topic that the germans want to discuss

2343
01:23:23,750 --> 01:23:21,440
much if ever and also ufo um

2344
01:23:25,590 --> 01:23:23,760
ufology has been a bit of a minefield in

2345
01:23:27,430 --> 01:23:25,600
germany over the years there are german

2346
01:23:29,830 --> 01:23:27,440
researchers but it's not something

2347
01:23:32,390 --> 01:23:29,840
that's been taken entirely entirely uh

2348
01:23:33,910 --> 01:23:32,400
seriously across there and from what i'm

2349
01:23:35,590 --> 01:23:33,920
aware and i've asked this question of

2350
01:23:38,149 --> 01:23:35,600
various people and i haven't had much

2351
01:23:40,149 --> 01:23:38,159
response is that i don't see the german

2352
01:23:42,070 --> 01:23:40,159
researchers trying to go through german

2353
01:23:44,790 --> 01:23:42,080
records in the same way i went through

2354
01:23:47,110 --> 01:23:44,800
british and and american ones to dig out

2355
01:23:48,870 --> 01:23:47,120
the information from their own luftwaffe

2356
01:23:50,470 --> 01:23:48,880
records now you have to remember that a

2357
01:23:52,390 --> 01:23:50,480
lot of these records were destroyed and

2358
01:23:54,229 --> 01:23:52,400
then the war by the germans before the

2359
01:23:56,470 --> 01:23:54,239
final surrender so there are complete

2360
01:23:58,470 --> 01:23:56,480
years which are missing but they must

2361
01:24:01,430 --> 01:23:58,480
have records and they certainly do have

2362
01:24:02,870 --> 01:24:01,440
records of losses and operations where

2363
01:24:04,550 --> 01:24:02,880
anything like this probably would have

2364
01:24:06,070 --> 01:24:04,560
been recorded now i don't know what

2365
01:24:06,790 --> 01:24:06,080
level they have and i've seen some of it

2366
01:24:08,470 --> 01:24:06,800
but

2367
01:24:10,629 --> 01:24:08,480
i'm not fluent enough in german to be

2368
01:24:12,229 --> 01:24:10,639
able to understand it so you know the

2369
01:24:14,310 --> 01:24:12,239
answer to that is i haven't come across

2370
01:24:16,629 --> 01:24:14,320
it not many other people as far as i'm

2371
01:24:19,350 --> 01:24:16,639
aware you know have have more than a

2372
01:24:21,270 --> 01:24:19,360
handful of reports and what i could find

2373
01:24:23,110 --> 01:24:21,280
have gone in there uh you can see a

2374
01:24:24,629 --> 01:24:23,120
newspaper sitting behind me over my

2375
01:24:27,270 --> 01:24:24,639
shoulder there that's actually a german

2376
01:24:28,709 --> 01:24:27,280
ufo newsletter from the 1970s and it has

2377
01:24:30,390 --> 01:24:28,719
a case in there that's why i obtained

2378
01:24:32,550 --> 01:24:30,400
that that's the kind of level i had to

2379
01:24:35,270 --> 01:24:32,560
go to to find some of these cases it was

2380
01:24:36,950 --> 01:24:35,280
going some really obscure places um to

2381
01:24:38,550 --> 01:24:36,960
get the stories but they can't be

2382
01:24:40,149 --> 01:24:38,560
necessarily verified because i can't

2383
01:24:41,430 --> 01:24:40,159
cooperate them so i had to put it like a

2384
01:24:43,830 --> 01:24:41,440
caveat in the book saying look you know

2385
01:24:45,910 --> 01:24:43,840
some of these things are fairly vague um

2386
01:24:48,470 --> 01:24:45,920
they're not the same level as the rf or

2387
01:24:50,550 --> 01:24:48,480
the us army air force kind of reporting

2388
01:24:52,550 --> 01:24:50,560
um but yeah as far as the japanese go

2389
01:24:54,709 --> 01:24:52,560
it's exactly the same story you know the

2390
01:24:57,350 --> 01:24:54,719
stories of um and there's photographs

2391
01:24:59,830 --> 01:24:57,360
which may or may not be true which are

2392
01:25:01,990 --> 01:24:59,840
probably fakes uh showing japanese

2393
01:25:03,430 --> 01:25:02,000
aircraft in fairly close proximity to

2394
01:25:05,030 --> 01:25:03,440
things which have been called foo

2395
01:25:08,709 --> 01:25:05,040
fighters which are probably blobs on the

2396
01:25:10,470 --> 01:25:08,719
film in terms of photographic defects

2397
01:25:12,709 --> 01:25:10,480
but there's plenty of stories of

2398
01:25:13,590 --> 01:25:12,719
american involvement with balls of fire

2399
01:25:16,229 --> 01:25:13,600
because that's what they called about in

2400
01:25:17,430 --> 01:25:16,239
the pacific um they'd have that but

2401
01:25:18,790 --> 01:25:17,440
that's not something i cover in the book

2402
01:25:21,510 --> 01:25:18,800
because the book's just about european

2403
01:25:23,030 --> 01:25:21,520
side of things uh i will in the future

2404
01:25:24,629 --> 01:25:23,040
hopefully write something about the

2405
01:25:27,430 --> 01:25:24,639
pacific side because that's interesting

2406
01:25:30,229 --> 01:25:27,440
as well it is yeah no i'm so happy you

2407
01:25:33,030 --> 01:25:30,239
wrote the book i mean we we see this

2408
01:25:34,870 --> 01:25:33,040
phenomenon through such

2409
01:25:37,030 --> 01:25:34,880
western eyes here in the united states

2410
01:25:39,110 --> 01:25:37,040
that it's so refreshing for a book like

2411
01:25:41,510 --> 01:25:39,120
yours um to cover

2412
01:25:43,110 --> 01:25:41,520
other areas and time periods of when

2413
01:25:45,430 --> 01:25:43,120
these things have happened so we get the

2414
01:25:47,910 --> 01:25:45,440
fuller picture yeah um and i didn't know

2415
01:25:49,990 --> 01:25:47,920
that so i'm glad you told me that um you

2416
01:25:51,830 --> 01:25:50,000
know christopher plane said maybe it's

2417
01:25:56,709 --> 01:25:51,840
the same people who deleted elizondo's

2418
01:25:59,669 --> 01:25:58,070
everybody thought the foo fighters you

2419
01:26:00,790 --> 01:25:59,679
know up until about the mid 1990s

2420
01:26:02,950 --> 01:26:00,800
thought it was just things like half a

2421
01:26:05,110 --> 01:26:02,960
dozen cases uh that appeared in joe

2422
01:26:06,870 --> 01:26:05,120
chamberlain's 1945 um american legion

2423
01:26:08,070 --> 01:26:06,880
magazine article and they've been killed

2424
01:26:10,629 --> 01:26:08,080
from the four one fifth night fighter

2425
01:26:12,390 --> 01:26:10,639
squadron in eastern france so you know

2426
01:26:14,950 --> 01:26:12,400
that's why the ufo books didn't cover it

2427
01:26:16,950 --> 01:26:14,960
in the in the 50s 60s 70s and 80s to any

2428
01:26:19,030 --> 01:26:16,960
great degree because the information

2429
01:26:20,790 --> 01:26:19,040
simply wasn't there and for whatever

2430
01:26:22,790 --> 01:26:20,800
reason maybe just be the lack of

2431
01:26:25,669 --> 01:26:22,800
resources like a time a lack of

2432
01:26:28,149 --> 01:26:25,679
enthusiasm people didn't contact the

2433
01:26:29,830 --> 01:26:28,159
pilots beyond these few cases say look

2434
01:26:31,430 --> 01:26:29,840
have you seen anything you know there

2435
01:26:33,750 --> 01:26:31,440
wasn't that much information coming into

2436
01:26:35,669 --> 01:26:33,760
the into the newsletters and into into

2437
01:26:37,110 --> 01:26:35,679
ufo books there just seemed to be the

2438
01:26:39,110 --> 01:26:37,120
appetite everybody thought oh yeah let's

2439
01:26:40,149 --> 01:26:39,120
start with kent arnold but actually when

2440
01:26:42,950 --> 01:26:40,159
you look at the information there's a

2441
01:26:45,750 --> 01:26:42,960
lot more people have dug into the into

2442
01:26:47,990 --> 01:26:45,760
the foo fight art um you know things

2443
01:26:51,030 --> 01:26:48,000
since the night in the mid 1990s people

2444
01:26:53,110 --> 01:26:51,040
like jean alright from project 1947 from

2445
01:26:55,189 --> 01:26:53,120
jeff linsell he invested he interviewed

2446
01:26:57,990 --> 01:26:55,199
a lot of pilots before they died in the

2447
01:26:59,750 --> 01:26:58,000
late 90s early 2000s uh keith chester

2448
01:27:02,229 --> 01:26:59,760
wrote a book in 2007 called strange

2449
01:27:03,510 --> 01:27:02,239
company which i read and i enjoyed it

2450
01:27:05,590 --> 01:27:03,520
had a few errors in it which i've

2451
01:27:07,990 --> 01:27:05,600
corrected through this book but

2452
01:27:09,750 --> 01:27:08,000
ultimately it's still a good read um the

2453
01:27:11,990 --> 01:27:09,760
book i wrote which

2454
01:27:14,790 --> 01:27:12,000
plug plug there

2455
01:27:15,830 --> 01:27:14,800
uh ufos ufos before roswell

2456
01:27:17,510 --> 01:27:15,840
i dug

2457
01:27:18,950 --> 01:27:17,520
a couple of hundred cases out of the rf

2458
01:27:20,870 --> 01:27:18,960
records which have never been in print

2459
01:27:23,910 --> 01:27:20,880
before which never been known and these

2460
01:27:26,709 --> 01:27:23,920
happened over the balkans in 1944 so it

2461
01:27:29,350 --> 01:27:26,719
expands the area um there's cases in the

2462
01:27:30,629 --> 01:27:29,360
book from before 1944 where the

2463
01:27:33,030 --> 01:27:30,639
americans coined the tournament in

2464
01:27:34,149 --> 01:27:33,040
november 1944 about the foo fighters but

2465
01:27:37,750 --> 01:27:34,159
actually those things were happening

2466
01:27:39,030 --> 01:27:37,760
much earlier as early as 1942 um the the

2467
01:27:40,790 --> 01:27:39,040
picture on the front of the book is a

2468
01:27:42,629 --> 01:27:40,800
case where uh the crew of a wellington

2469
01:27:45,110 --> 01:27:42,639
bomber fired at the light and nothing

2470
01:27:47,350 --> 01:27:45,120
happened you know so all this kind of

2471
01:27:48,629 --> 01:27:47,360
stuff was happening um same kind of

2472
01:27:50,470 --> 01:27:48,639
things that the americans were seeing

2473
01:27:51,990 --> 01:27:50,480
later on the wall uh where the foo

2474
01:27:54,790 --> 01:27:52,000
fighter name comes from

2475
01:27:56,229 --> 01:27:54,800
seen much earlier been seen over france

2476
01:27:57,350 --> 01:27:56,239
germany but they've also been seen in

2477
01:27:59,270 --> 01:27:57,360
the balkans they've been seen over

2478
01:28:01,510 --> 01:27:59,280
northern italy people were seeing them

2479
01:28:03,990 --> 01:28:01,520
over scandinavia um over the russian

2480
01:28:06,709 --> 01:28:04,000
front over the bay of biscay

2481
01:28:08,390 --> 01:28:06,719
so yeah you know you name it over europe

2482
01:28:11,189 --> 01:28:08,400
you were saying them

2483
01:28:13,430 --> 01:28:11,199
awesome and yeah our most recent episode

2484
01:28:15,830 --> 01:28:13,440
is somewhere in the skies covers ufos in

2485
01:28:17,750 --> 01:28:15,840
scandinavia for anyone who um hasn't

2486
01:28:20,390 --> 01:28:17,760
heard it we have a brilliant

2487
01:28:23,669 --> 01:28:20,400
section um narrated by fred fred

2488
01:28:26,390 --> 01:28:23,679
anderson um over in i believe he is in

2489
01:28:28,470 --> 01:28:26,400
sweden um so please check that out in

2490
01:28:30,229 --> 01:28:28,480
the archives please check out graham's

2491
01:28:31,750 --> 01:28:30,239
book but we have one last question that

2492
01:28:33,430 --> 01:28:31,760
i want to ask of both of you if that's

2493
01:28:35,990 --> 01:28:33,440
okay is that all right chrissy i know

2494
01:28:38,870 --> 01:28:36,000
you gotta get you shoot no okay cool um

2495
01:28:42,149 --> 01:28:38,880
i'll ask um i'll ask graham first this

2496
01:28:44,390 --> 01:28:42,159
comes from twitter uh tp on twitter asks

2497
01:28:46,790 --> 01:28:44,400
if you could have witnessed any ufo

2498
01:28:48,629 --> 01:28:46,800
encounter in history which would you

2499
01:28:51,189 --> 01:28:48,639
choose graham what's the one you would

2500
01:28:52,870 --> 01:28:51,199
have been to like to have been a part of

2501
01:28:55,110 --> 01:28:52,880
i think everybody would say roswell

2502
01:28:57,270 --> 01:28:55,120
because it's just so kind of

2503
01:28:58,229 --> 01:28:57,280
out there in terms of all the you know

2504
01:28:59,910 --> 01:28:58,239
all the bits and pieces that are

2505
01:29:01,350 --> 01:28:59,920
associated with it all the people who

2506
01:29:03,270 --> 01:29:01,360
come forward and turned out to be you

2507
01:29:04,950 --> 01:29:03,280
know hoaxers and then all the other

2508
01:29:06,470 --> 01:29:04,960
information that's whether that sort of

2509
01:29:07,830 --> 01:29:06,480
suggests that there's something going on

2510
01:29:09,350 --> 01:29:07,840
but actually that's not the one i'm

2511
01:29:12,390 --> 01:29:09,360
going to mention the one i'm going to

2512
01:29:15,430 --> 01:29:12,400
mention is the thomas mantel incident um

2513
01:29:17,910 --> 01:29:15,440
for from 1948 uh the one where he was

2514
01:29:20,470 --> 01:29:17,920
supposedly chased venus to his death you

2515
01:29:23,189 --> 01:29:20,480
know the one where he is he's led to a

2516
01:29:24,790 --> 01:29:23,199
ran out of oxygen by chasing this object

2517
01:29:26,629 --> 01:29:24,800
that he's these squadron mates turned

2518
01:29:28,470 --> 01:29:26,639
back because that they couldn't fly so

2519
01:29:31,910 --> 01:29:28,480
high and he just kept on going he flew

2520
01:29:34,070 --> 01:29:31,920
to 20 000 feet and maybe more in search

2521
01:29:35,910 --> 01:29:34,080
and chase an object and then died these

2522
01:29:37,510 --> 01:29:35,920
aircraft crashed and he died i would

2523
01:29:39,590 --> 01:29:37,520
love to know not necessarily in the

2524
01:29:41,590 --> 01:29:39,600
aircraft and me die but i'd like to know

2525
01:29:43,510 --> 01:29:41,600
what he was chasing you know i'd like to

2526
01:29:45,270 --> 01:29:43,520
be there on the spot and see what the

2527
01:29:47,189 --> 01:29:45,280
controllers could see from the tower at

2528
01:29:49,270 --> 01:29:47,199
gordon field that they could see

2529
01:29:51,430 --> 01:29:49,280
themselves what the people in the towns

2530
01:29:53,669 --> 01:29:51,440
nearby who had seen this object at

2531
01:29:56,550 --> 01:29:53,679
different points of the day were were

2532
01:29:58,149 --> 01:29:56,560
seeing for themselves as well um and and

2533
01:30:00,310 --> 01:29:58,159
what the astronomer who was down in

2534
01:30:02,390 --> 01:30:00,320
nashville that saw this object fly over

2535
01:30:03,990 --> 01:30:02,400
that he reported as a balloon what what

2536
01:30:05,189 --> 01:30:04,000
they saw as well so

2537
01:30:07,750 --> 01:30:05,199
there's all these different elements of

2538
01:30:09,270 --> 01:30:07,760
this story which was an amazing story um

2539
01:30:10,470 --> 01:30:09,280
but unfortunately you know ended with

2540
01:30:12,229 --> 01:30:10,480
the death of the pilot so that would be

2541
01:30:13,510 --> 01:30:12,239
one i would look at and think i would

2542
01:30:16,709 --> 01:30:13,520
like to have been a fly in the wall

2543
01:30:19,189 --> 01:30:16,719
there and see what actually went on

2544
01:30:20,629 --> 01:30:19,199
i love it i love it yeah and um i do

2545
01:30:22,790 --> 01:30:20,639
want to mention thank you disclosure

2546
01:30:25,350 --> 01:30:22,800
team vinnie for the super sticker he is

2547
01:30:27,430 --> 01:30:25,360
in loch ness right now visiting us um

2548
01:30:30,310 --> 01:30:27,440
taking a little break to come say hi to

2549
01:30:32,390 --> 01:30:30,320
us so hi vinnie hi dan i know you guys

2550
01:30:34,470 --> 01:30:32,400
are doing some awesome work out there so

2551
01:30:37,189 --> 01:30:34,480
um thanks guys thanks for hopping and

2552
01:30:40,629 --> 01:30:37,199
saying hello we certainly appreciate it

2553
01:30:42,390 --> 01:30:40,639
uh chrissy same question which ufo event

2554
01:30:45,590 --> 01:30:42,400
would you like to have witnessed in

2555
01:30:48,310 --> 01:30:45,600
history perspective is i think is the

2556
01:30:49,110 --> 01:30:48,320
any pilot perspective i would love to

2557
01:30:49,990 --> 01:30:49,120
see

2558
01:30:52,149 --> 01:30:50,000
but

2559
01:30:54,229 --> 01:30:52,159
i have i've two i'm like for sure like

2560
01:30:56,580 --> 01:30:54,239
everyone's gonna laugh but phoenix

2561
01:30:57,910 --> 01:30:56,590
lights to me i love motherships

2562
01:30:58,870 --> 01:30:57,920
[Laughter]

2563
01:31:01,350 --> 01:30:58,880
um

2564
01:31:03,270 --> 01:31:01,360
i just find them fascinating so i would

2565
01:31:05,030 --> 01:31:03,280
have loved to be underneath that looking

2566
01:31:06,629 --> 01:31:05,040
up i remember the perspective and i

2567
01:31:08,310 --> 01:31:06,639
think the perspective of

2568
01:31:10,790 --> 01:31:08,320
i was a mother and a daughter driving in

2569
01:31:13,110 --> 01:31:10,800
the highway before the craft went into

2570
01:31:15,430 --> 01:31:13,120
phoenix and they were they were driving

2571
01:31:16,709 --> 01:31:15,440
underneath it and they were looking up

2572
01:31:18,070 --> 01:31:16,719
and they could they were so close that

2573
01:31:19,270 --> 01:31:18,080
they could see them it being like

2574
01:31:22,149 --> 01:31:19,280
metallic

2575
01:31:24,709 --> 01:31:22,159
um so i think for that but my favorite

2576
01:31:27,030 --> 01:31:24,719
story that has a ufo attachment to it is

2577
01:31:28,950 --> 01:31:27,040
the aerial school event the area school

2578
01:31:31,669 --> 01:31:28,960
incident to me is

2579
01:31:34,550 --> 01:31:31,679
i just those children you know a mass

2580
01:31:37,270 --> 01:31:34,560
sighting with a ufo with an

2581
01:31:39,669 --> 01:31:37,280
an experience as well um and contact

2582
01:31:41,990 --> 01:31:39,679
experience i think to me that is

2583
01:31:43,270 --> 01:31:42,000
unbelievable i would like to hear more

2584
01:31:44,870 --> 01:31:43,280
stories coming out of africa and

2585
01:31:46,550 --> 01:31:44,880
different countries there

2586
01:31:49,110 --> 01:31:46,560
we don't hear enough of them and i think

2587
01:31:50,709 --> 01:31:49,120
that at some point we will um you know i

2588
01:31:52,470 --> 01:31:50,719
know randall nickerson is working on

2589
01:31:55,750 --> 01:31:52,480
that now in his movie that's coming out

2590
01:31:57,350 --> 01:31:55,760
shortly so i'm yeah i think aerial

2591
01:31:59,669 --> 01:31:57,360
school for sure is one of my favorites

2592
01:32:01,590 --> 01:31:59,679
it's just it's such an

2593
01:32:03,189 --> 01:32:01,600
uh an amazing story with a group of

2594
01:32:05,350 --> 01:32:03,199
children so

2595
01:32:07,030 --> 01:32:05,360
i i would have to agree with you i think

2596
01:32:07,910 --> 01:32:07,040
that would be the one i would like to

2597
01:32:10,149 --> 01:32:07,920
have been

2598
01:32:12,950 --> 01:32:10,159
involved with as well um

2599
01:32:14,709 --> 01:32:12,960
mainly because there were enough other

2600
01:32:16,470 --> 01:32:14,719
people there that i wouldn't be as

2601
01:32:19,270 --> 01:32:16,480
scared i think i would want to be part

2602
01:32:22,790 --> 01:32:19,280
of a mass ufo sighting rather than some

2603
01:32:25,189 --> 01:32:22,800
mothership experience by myself um my

2604
01:32:26,790 --> 01:32:25,199
my rather dramatic ufo sighting with my

2605
01:32:30,070 --> 01:32:26,800
father was

2606
01:32:32,390 --> 01:32:30,080
was enough for me in one lifetime um so

2607
01:32:34,470 --> 01:32:32,400
i'm okay not having a ufo sighting ever

2608
01:32:36,870 --> 01:32:34,480
again but if i were to i think it would

2609
01:32:37,830 --> 01:32:36,880
be aerial school like you said just so

2610
01:32:39,590 --> 01:32:37,840
many

2611
01:32:41,590 --> 01:32:39,600
credible witnesses involved some of

2612
01:32:44,709 --> 01:32:41,600
which i've interviewed here on the show

2613
01:32:47,590 --> 01:32:44,719
who some 30 plus years later

2614
01:32:50,310 --> 01:32:47,600
still stick to the story as it was

2615
01:32:52,229 --> 01:32:50,320
that very day and how much the event

2616
01:32:54,070 --> 01:32:52,239
impacted their lives and

2617
01:32:55,669 --> 01:32:54,080
changed their lives again that's what

2618
01:32:59,030 --> 01:32:55,679
i'm about here at somewhere in the skies

2619
01:33:00,390 --> 01:32:59,040
is how these events change people and um

2620
01:33:02,070 --> 01:33:00,400
you know

2621
01:33:03,990 --> 01:33:02,080
the aftermath of an event like how do

2622
01:33:07,110 --> 01:33:04,000
you go on after that after having your

2623
01:33:09,030 --> 01:33:07,120
entire world turned upside down and

2624
01:33:11,030 --> 01:33:09,040
and whatnot it's crazy it's absolutely

2625
01:33:13,350 --> 01:33:11,040
crazy so that's a good choice that's a

2626
01:33:15,669 --> 01:33:13,360
good choice well graham before we let

2627
01:33:17,270 --> 01:33:15,679
you go man um and thank you so much for

2628
01:33:18,790 --> 01:33:17,280
your time we kept you a little over what

2629
01:33:21,669 --> 01:33:18,800
i promised um

2630
01:33:22,390 --> 01:33:21,679
tell us a little if you can about uh the

2631
01:33:25,669 --> 01:33:22,400
new

2632
01:33:27,830 --> 01:33:25,679
project you are working on and um when

2633
01:33:30,629 --> 01:33:27,840
can we expect it i know that's a hard

2634
01:33:32,470 --> 01:33:30,639
question to to answer and uh authors

2635
01:33:34,470 --> 01:33:32,480
hate getting that question but when are

2636
01:33:35,270 --> 01:33:34,480
we getting the new damn book

2637
01:33:37,510 --> 01:33:35,280
well

2638
01:33:38,790 --> 01:33:37,520
you should ask dan and olaf that

2639
01:33:41,189 --> 01:33:38,800
question because they're finishing off

2640
01:33:44,390 --> 01:33:41,199
the artwork for for it as i said really

2641
01:33:57,430 --> 01:33:44,400
okay so when that's done it's out

2642
01:34:01,430 --> 01:33:58,709
i said to the person who's written the

2643
01:34:03,510 --> 01:34:01,440
forward um you know you can get it to me

2644
01:34:05,590 --> 01:34:03,520
when you can and actually they they've

2645
01:34:07,030 --> 01:34:05,600
provided that so that's that out the way

2646
01:34:08,470 --> 01:34:07,040
and the last thing is the artwork but

2647
01:34:10,550 --> 01:34:08,480
obviously dan's been busy with his

2648
01:34:12,390 --> 01:34:10,560
columbia project and he's now just been

2649
01:34:14,070 --> 01:34:12,400
up to balskat house up near loch ness

2650
01:34:15,430 --> 01:34:14,080
for alastair crowley uh doing a

2651
01:34:17,750 --> 01:34:15,440
documentary with vinnie and some other

2652
01:34:19,270 --> 01:34:17,760
people regarding that so you know that

2653
01:34:20,550 --> 01:34:19,280
that's taking his time as well so i

2654
01:34:22,629 --> 01:34:20,560
understand why it's taking a little bit

2655
01:34:24,149 --> 01:34:22,639
longer uh but they assured me that

2656
01:34:26,149 --> 01:34:24,159
they'll have it you know to me shortly

2657
01:34:28,470 --> 01:34:26,159
so that's what that's wonderful uh and

2658
01:34:30,830 --> 01:34:28,480
as soon as i get it it'll be out um it's

2659
01:34:32,390 --> 01:34:30,840
not on the foo fighters that's all i'm

2660
01:34:34,390 --> 01:34:32,400
about because i don't want to be called

2661
01:34:36,550 --> 01:34:34,400
mr foo fighter

2662
01:34:38,310 --> 01:34:36,560
i don't want to be type cast so it's

2663
01:34:40,229 --> 01:34:38,320
it's got an aviation element to it oh

2664
01:34:42,310 --> 01:34:40,239
that's all i'll say but it's definitely

2665
01:34:44,229 --> 01:34:42,320
more kind of in the style of the foo

2666
01:34:46,149 --> 01:34:44,239
fighter book in terms of how much depth

2667
01:34:48,790 --> 01:34:46,159
i go into and the kind of you know

2668
01:34:50,310 --> 01:34:48,800
resourcing of information that can back

2669
01:34:52,149 --> 01:34:50,320
up what i'm saying because

2670
01:34:53,990 --> 01:34:52,159
i remember books i used to read in the

2671
01:34:55,430 --> 01:34:54,000
70 in the late 70s and early 80s when i

2672
01:34:57,350 --> 01:34:55,440
was growing up when i was first in the

2673
01:34:59,430 --> 01:34:57,360
ufo hobby and a lot of it didn't have

2674
01:35:00,470 --> 01:34:59,440
any adoration whatsoever so it was a

2675
01:35:01,830 --> 01:35:00,480
case of well how do i know where the

2676
01:35:02,870 --> 01:35:01,840
hell you've got this information from

2677
01:35:04,950 --> 01:35:02,880
it's almost like you could have just

2678
01:35:06,629 --> 01:35:04,960
made this up you know and i hated that

2679
01:35:08,390 --> 01:35:06,639
kind of thing and i vowed that have i

2680
01:35:10,310 --> 01:35:08,400
ever which i never thought i would but

2681
01:35:12,070 --> 01:35:10,320
if i ever wrote a book myself i would

2682
01:35:14,470 --> 01:35:12,080
make sure that it was kind of you know

2683
01:35:15,910 --> 01:35:14,480
sort of footnoted to the nth degree so

2684
01:35:16,870 --> 01:35:15,920
people couldn't turn around five years

2685
01:35:19,669 --> 01:35:16,880
later they said graeme i think you've

2686
01:35:21,270 --> 01:35:19,679
just made that up you know so

2687
01:35:24,870 --> 01:35:21,280
so that's how that's why your first book

2688
01:35:27,750 --> 01:35:24,880
is about uh 30 pounds i think yeah

2689
01:35:29,430 --> 01:35:27,760
it's a western weapon oh yeah it's uh

2690
01:35:33,109 --> 01:35:29,440
it's it's thick you know it can do some

2691
01:35:35,189 --> 01:35:33,119
damage with that yeah yeah for sure oh

2692
01:35:37,910 --> 01:35:35,199
man i can't wait i can't wait for that

2693
01:35:40,790 --> 01:35:37,920
um again pressure's on dan and olaf get

2694
01:35:42,629 --> 01:35:40,800
working um but other than that

2695
01:35:43,430 --> 01:35:42,639
where can we find everything you're up

2696
01:35:45,430 --> 01:35:43,440
to

2697
01:35:46,390 --> 01:35:45,440
well just contact me on twitter it's the

2698
01:35:47,910 --> 01:35:46,400
best way because that's where i

2699
01:35:50,229 --> 01:35:47,920
announced everything nowadays i'll live

2700
01:35:52,550 --> 01:35:50,239
on twitter apparently so it's at border

2701
01:35:55,830 --> 01:35:52,560
750 um that's how you can get in touch

2702
01:35:59,350 --> 01:35:55,840
with me so uh and the last i joined ufc

2703
01:36:00,790 --> 01:35:59,360
media uk 12 months ago um and it's been

2704
01:36:02,709 --> 01:36:00,800
a bit of a roller coaster ride since

2705
01:36:04,070 --> 01:36:02,719
then uh before that you know i was just

2706
01:36:06,470 --> 01:36:04,080
somebody sort of shouting into the

2707
01:36:07,910 --> 01:36:06,480
wilderness and i was putting a few

2708
01:36:09,669 --> 01:36:07,920
things out there but not really getting

2709
01:36:11,669 --> 01:36:09,679
anywhere and since i joined that it's

2710
01:36:14,470 --> 01:36:11,679
just been a kind of wow you're gonna

2711
01:36:16,470 --> 01:36:14,480
ride um i keep getting impostor syndrome

2712
01:36:18,390 --> 01:36:16,480
i really do i keep thinking

2713
01:36:20,229 --> 01:36:18,400
you know i'm i'm one of these days

2714
01:36:21,910 --> 01:36:20,239
people are gonna find me out you know

2715
01:36:24,550 --> 01:36:21,920
sort of thing

2716
01:36:26,149 --> 01:36:24,560
um

2717
01:36:28,629 --> 01:36:26,159
i genuinely have a kind of less kind of

2718
01:36:29,750 --> 01:36:28,639
like fear sometimes with people thinking

2719
01:36:31,750 --> 01:36:29,760
you don't know what you're talking about

2720
01:36:33,109 --> 01:36:31,760
graeme um so every time i release

2721
01:36:35,510 --> 01:36:33,119
something every time i post something i

2722
01:36:37,590 --> 01:36:35,520
thought what's the reaction going to be

2723
01:36:39,189 --> 01:36:37,600
yeah i'm also a bit well i'm i'm really

2724
01:36:40,870 --> 01:36:39,199
kind of this little coward in this kind

2725
01:36:43,270 --> 01:36:40,880
of extrovert

2726
01:36:45,109 --> 01:36:43,280
exterior so but i'm grateful to

2727
01:36:46,790 --> 01:36:45,119
everybody who's who supported me

2728
01:36:48,870 --> 01:36:46,800
everybody who had made time for me

2729
01:36:50,709 --> 01:36:48,880
everybody like yourself who's invited me

2730
01:36:52,310 --> 01:36:50,719
on on their podcast and discussed the

2731
01:36:55,030 --> 01:36:52,320
book and who's bought it and who's

2732
01:36:57,189 --> 01:36:55,040
shared it and who's appreciated it um so

2733
01:36:59,430 --> 01:36:57,199
you know thank you to everybody it's

2734
01:37:01,510 --> 01:36:59,440
it's wonderful and it just inspires me

2735
01:37:03,189 --> 01:37:01,520
to do more and more information and to

2736
01:37:05,430 --> 01:37:03,199
support people like you for the work

2737
01:37:07,270 --> 01:37:05,440
that you two do as well so yeah it's

2738
01:37:09,270 --> 01:37:07,280
it's wonderful it's a great community of

2739
01:37:11,189 --> 01:37:09,280
this and i'm so pleased i'm a little bit

2740
01:37:14,070 --> 01:37:11,199
part a little bit part of it

2741
01:37:16,709 --> 01:37:14,080
i think you're a little bit part of it

2742
01:37:17,830 --> 01:37:16,719
authors are are such a major part such a

2743
01:37:20,550 --> 01:37:17,840
major note

2744
01:37:22,550 --> 01:37:20,560
graham we are beyond honored to have you

2745
01:37:25,189 --> 01:37:22,560
in this field and you are essential and

2746
01:37:27,430 --> 01:37:25,199
you're doing amazing work so we have to

2747
01:37:30,629 --> 01:37:27,440
thank you for coming on somewhere in the

2748
01:37:32,870 --> 01:37:30,639
skies and uh for for dedicating your

2749
01:37:35,189 --> 01:37:32,880
time to this topic that christine and i

2750
01:37:36,550 --> 01:37:35,199
both feel could truly change the world

2751
01:37:38,790 --> 01:37:36,560
if we ever

2752
01:37:42,790 --> 01:37:38,800
fully understood it which we might never

2753
01:37:45,350 --> 01:37:42,800
but um i think the journey is rewarding

2754
01:37:47,510 --> 01:37:45,360
enough and you are you are a big part of

2755
01:37:49,990 --> 01:37:47,520
that so thank you for joining us on

2756
01:37:52,310 --> 01:37:50,000
somewhere in the skies and um

2757
01:37:53,510 --> 01:37:52,320
and we will talk soon man for sure

2758
01:37:58,229 --> 01:37:53,520
thanks guys

2759
01:38:03,590 --> 01:38:00,310
wow chrissy we'll have just a quick

2760
01:38:05,830 --> 01:38:03,600
debrief here um that was amazing again

2761
01:38:07,990 --> 01:38:05,840
we didn't really plan a ton with graham

2762
01:38:09,109 --> 01:38:08,000
because we knew once we got him on like

2763
01:38:11,830 --> 01:38:09,119
he would just have a wealth of

2764
01:38:13,590 --> 01:38:11,840
information so um i gotta thank you for

2765
01:38:17,030 --> 01:38:13,600
also taking the time today i know oh my

2766
01:38:19,189 --> 01:38:17,040
god a little impromptu um andy again is

2767
01:38:20,950 --> 01:38:19,199
under the weather for those tuning in

2768
01:38:23,189 --> 01:38:20,960
andy from that ufo podcast was going to

2769
01:38:25,189 --> 01:38:23,199
be joining us but um he's not feeling

2770
01:38:28,070 --> 01:38:25,199
too good so we are sending him our

2771
01:38:29,910 --> 01:38:28,080
absolute best he's a busy busy dad and

2772
01:38:32,709 --> 01:38:29,920
it doesn't surprise me that his immune

2773
01:38:34,790 --> 01:38:32,719
system finally shut down so andy sending

2774
01:38:38,390 --> 01:38:34,800
you our best my man but chrissy before

2775
01:38:40,070 --> 01:38:38,400
we go yes um what are you up to any any

2776
01:38:42,470 --> 01:38:40,080
news you can share with us about stuff

2777
01:38:44,229 --> 01:38:42,480
you're doing um and where can we find

2778
01:38:45,669 --> 01:38:44,239
everything yeah for sure interviews that

2779
01:38:47,750 --> 01:38:45,679
i'm yeah i'm like working i should be

2780
01:38:49,430 --> 01:38:47,760
releasing a new interview next week so

2781
01:38:51,590 --> 01:38:49,440
i'm working on that if it still goes i

2782
01:38:53,590 --> 01:38:51,600
won't say fully what it will be about

2783
01:38:55,510 --> 01:38:53,600
just booking booking for us booking for

2784
01:38:57,590 --> 01:38:55,520
you and yeah just exciting and working

2785
01:38:59,590 --> 01:38:57,600
on stuff with the debrief lots of fun

2786
01:39:01,030 --> 01:38:59,600
stories i think i'll just say people

2787
01:39:02,470 --> 01:39:01,040
hopefully take a

2788
01:39:04,470 --> 01:39:02,480
just keep watching for the next little

2789
01:39:06,629 --> 01:39:04,480
bit i think we'll have some great ufo

2790
01:39:08,950 --> 01:39:06,639
stories that will be coming out and just

2791
01:39:11,590 --> 01:39:08,960
information tech defense tim is doing an

2792
01:39:13,669 --> 01:39:11,600
amazing job covering the war right now

2793
01:39:15,669 --> 01:39:13,679
so uh if you're interested in that come

2794
01:39:17,910 --> 01:39:15,679
please just go to the deeproof.org and

2795
01:39:19,910 --> 01:39:17,920
follow us and and obviously christopher

2796
01:39:21,350 --> 01:39:19,920
plane's still here hey chris he always

2797
01:39:23,189 --> 01:39:21,360
does amazing work too and have some good

2798
01:39:26,950 --> 01:39:23,199
stuff coming out soon as well

2799
01:39:27,910 --> 01:39:26,960
so absolutely and um you were amazing in

2800
01:39:29,990 --> 01:39:27,920
um

2801
01:39:32,470 --> 01:39:30,000
getting us another interview with avi

2802
01:39:35,270 --> 01:39:32,480
lope who will be interviewing very soon

2803
01:39:37,830 --> 01:39:35,280
um so guys if you want um we still are

2804
01:39:40,070 --> 01:39:37,840
open to listener questions for for avi

2805
01:39:41,990 --> 01:39:40,080
um we got a ton so hopefully we'll get

2806
01:39:44,149 --> 01:39:42,000
to some of them but um yeah feel free to

2807
01:39:45,750 --> 01:39:44,159
reach out to me or chrissy and um throw

2808
01:39:47,830 --> 01:39:45,760
us your questions for avi loeb we'll be

2809
01:39:49,830 --> 01:39:47,840
talking about galileo um we'll be

2810
01:39:52,790 --> 01:39:49,840
talking about some recent articles he's

2811
01:39:54,149 --> 01:39:52,800
done over at the debrief and um and

2812
01:39:57,109 --> 01:39:54,159
everything in between you know the

2813
01:40:00,550 --> 01:39:57,119
latest findings from uh what what is it

2814
01:40:02,629 --> 01:40:00,560
the um hubble and also

2815
01:40:04,950 --> 01:40:02,639
james webb telescope

2816
01:40:07,030 --> 01:40:04,960
totally black

2817
01:40:10,149 --> 01:40:07,040
there's so many of them now oh yeah even

2818
01:40:12,229 --> 01:40:10,159
aviolog did a a lip lecture recently and

2819
01:40:14,229 --> 01:40:12,239
did some updates i watched that so we'll

2820
01:40:15,750 --> 01:40:14,239
talk to him about updates on the galileo

2821
01:40:17,990 --> 01:40:15,760
project but he spoke there in the

2822
01:40:20,709 --> 01:40:18,000
lecture so i'm excited for that i love

2823
01:40:22,629 --> 01:40:20,719
avi and i love his work so i'm excited

2824
01:40:24,070 --> 01:40:22,639
to see what's yeah what he has planned

2825
01:40:26,790 --> 01:40:24,080
in the next little bit that's coming out

2826
01:40:28,790 --> 01:40:26,800
so it's exciting awesome yeah all right

2827
01:40:30,950 --> 01:40:28,800
chrissy well i know you are a busy

2828
01:40:32,790 --> 01:40:30,960
person you've got some meetings to get

2829
01:40:34,390 --> 01:40:32,800
to um so i'm going to talk shop a little

2830
01:40:37,270 --> 01:40:34,400
bit with the folks here but i want to

2831
01:40:39,590 --> 01:40:37,280
thank you again for hopping on today and

2832
01:40:41,350 --> 01:40:39,600
all your insights on all this so um we

2833
01:40:43,669 --> 01:40:41,360
will definitely talk soon probably

2834
01:40:45,990 --> 01:40:43,679
within the next couple hours

2835
01:40:48,550 --> 01:40:46,000
a little bit okay bye guys

2836
01:40:52,310 --> 01:40:50,390
my special thanks to graham and to

2837
01:40:54,870 --> 01:40:52,320
chrissy for joining us today this is so

2838
01:40:57,350 --> 01:40:54,880
much fun um we went almost 40 minutes

2839
01:40:58,790 --> 01:40:57,360
over what i promised these two so i have

2840
01:41:00,870 --> 01:40:58,800
to thank them for their time i want to

2841
01:41:02,709 --> 01:41:00,880
thank all of you for sticking with us

2842
01:41:04,390 --> 01:41:02,719
and watching i want to thank everyone

2843
01:41:06,790 --> 01:41:04,400
who gave the super stickers and super

2844
01:41:09,109 --> 01:41:06,800
chats really appreciate it really really

2845
01:41:10,470 --> 01:41:09,119
appreciate it hello to dave altman i'm

2846
01:41:11,910 --> 01:41:10,480
sorry i didn't see your message there

2847
01:41:13,910 --> 01:41:11,920
man um

2848
01:41:16,149 --> 01:41:13,920
we got dan setterstrom here

2849
01:41:18,629 --> 01:41:16,159
hit the like eve says yes please um

2850
01:41:20,870 --> 01:41:18,639
share the video like the video subscribe

2851
01:41:23,109 --> 01:41:20,880
to the channel if you are not already we

2852
01:41:25,750 --> 01:41:23,119
would certainly appreciate that thanks

2853
01:41:29,030 --> 01:41:25,760
says to christopher plane bb

2854
01:41:31,590 --> 01:41:29,040
jesse um i know jay faye is here

2855
01:41:34,870 --> 01:41:31,600
everybody everybody thank you john as

2856
01:41:37,109 --> 01:41:34,880
well bim jim robert chaffee thank you

2857
01:41:40,310 --> 01:41:37,119
guys i really appreciate all of your

2858
01:41:42,470 --> 01:41:40,320
support as usual um the last thing i

2859
01:41:43,430 --> 01:41:42,480
want to share with you guys hello jesse

2860
01:41:46,070 --> 01:41:43,440
as well

2861
01:41:48,310 --> 01:41:46,080
um is some conferences i have coming up

2862
01:41:50,149 --> 01:41:48,320
live conferences are back and i am so

2863
01:41:52,470 --> 01:41:50,159
excited to be finally getting out there

2864
01:41:54,950 --> 01:41:52,480
and um giving some new lectures that

2865
01:41:57,189 --> 01:41:54,960
i've been working on recently so the

2866
01:41:58,070 --> 01:41:57,199
first one i have is going to be coming

2867
01:41:59,030 --> 01:41:58,080
to you

2868
01:42:05,109 --> 01:41:59,040
in

2869
01:42:07,030 --> 01:42:05,119
tales midwest conference on the unknown

2870
01:42:09,669 --> 01:42:07,040
which is going to be in cape torado

2871
01:42:12,870 --> 01:42:09,679
missouri where a very famous ufo crash

2872
01:42:15,109 --> 01:42:12,880
landing occurred so definitely um i'm

2873
01:42:16,870 --> 01:42:15,119
going gonna touch on that in my talk and

2874
01:42:19,189 --> 01:42:16,880
um and everything in between and i do

2875
01:42:21,189 --> 01:42:19,199
have to thank michael huntington who's

2876
01:42:23,350 --> 01:42:21,199
really at the forefront of this

2877
01:42:25,830 --> 01:42:23,360
conference putting it together finding

2878
01:42:27,430 --> 01:42:25,840
the speakers um incredible list of

2879
01:42:30,470 --> 01:42:27,440
speakers coming to you guys including

2880
01:42:32,629 --> 01:42:30,480
micah hanks and michael as well and a

2881
01:42:34,470 --> 01:42:32,639
bunch of others as well so that's going

2882
01:42:37,109 --> 01:42:34,480
to be coming to you august 5th through

2883
01:42:39,990 --> 01:42:37,119
the 7th um you can learn more at i

2884
01:42:42,229 --> 01:42:40,000
believe it is um

2885
01:42:43,830 --> 01:42:42,239
let me get this right cape

2886
01:42:46,709 --> 01:42:43,840
events

2887
01:42:48,310 --> 01:42:46,719
dot com slash paranormal um you can

2888
01:42:50,550 --> 01:42:48,320
learn more i'll have links in the show

2889
01:42:51,990 --> 01:42:50,560
notes as well for you to check that out

2890
01:42:54,470 --> 01:42:52,000
and then the second event i'm gonna be

2891
01:42:56,149 --> 01:42:54,480
speaking at is the michigan ufo con

2892
01:42:57,910 --> 01:42:56,159
which i had the pleasure of doing a few

2893
01:42:59,750 --> 01:42:57,920
years ago um

2894
01:43:01,510 --> 01:42:59,760
and that's going to be september 23rd

2895
01:43:04,149 --> 01:43:01,520
excuse me september 23rd through the

2896
01:43:06,229 --> 01:43:04,159
24th in houghton lake michigan and i'm

2897
01:43:08,629 --> 01:43:06,239
going to be giving a talk all about the

2898
01:43:10,790 --> 01:43:08,639
crazy stuff that's happened in michigan

2899
01:43:13,510 --> 01:43:10,800
in terms of ufos personal cases that

2900
01:43:15,109 --> 01:43:13,520
i've investigated and famous historical

2901
01:43:16,950 --> 01:43:15,119
things that have happened there as well

2902
01:43:20,310 --> 01:43:16,960
including things with gerald ford and

2903
01:43:22,709 --> 01:43:20,320
obviously jl and heineck and swamp gas

2904
01:43:25,270 --> 01:43:22,719
and everything in between um so i hope

2905
01:43:27,109 --> 01:43:25,280
you can join me in missouri at the

2906
01:43:29,270 --> 01:43:27,119
strange tales midwest conference of the

2907
01:43:31,270 --> 01:43:29,280
unknown their first event which is going

2908
01:43:33,510 --> 01:43:31,280
to be really cool august 5th through the

2909
01:43:37,270 --> 01:43:33,520
7th and then again michigan ufo con

2910
01:43:39,590 --> 01:43:37,280
september 23rd through the 24th again i

2911
01:43:41,189 --> 01:43:39,600
want to thank everyone in the chat for

2912
01:43:43,990 --> 01:43:41,199
joining us tonight i want to thank our

2913
01:43:45,590 --> 01:43:44,000
guest graham my co-host chrissy and

2914
01:43:47,669 --> 01:43:45,600
everyone who supports the show whether

2915
01:43:49,510 --> 01:43:47,679
it's through super chat super sticker or

2916
01:43:51,510 --> 01:43:49,520
patreon as well if you do want to become

2917
01:43:54,310 --> 01:43:51,520
a patreon member we have tons of bonus

2918
01:43:56,870 --> 01:43:54,320
content and um interviews and stuff like

2919
01:43:59,910 --> 01:43:56,880
that over there you get early editions

2920
01:44:02,470 --> 01:43:59,920
of the show as well every week um you

2921
01:44:03,910 --> 01:44:02,480
can go to patreon.com summer skies i'm

2922
01:44:06,629 --> 01:44:03,920
going to play a promo for the patreon

2923
01:44:08,229 --> 01:44:06,639
right after this and um yeah would love

2924
01:44:10,070 --> 01:44:08,239
to have you guys over there as well and

2925
01:44:13,189 --> 01:44:10,080
join in on the bonus

2926
01:44:15,030 --> 01:44:13,199
fun content we got but um that is it for

2927
01:44:17,990 --> 01:44:15,040
tonight guys thank you so much for

2928
01:44:21,030 --> 01:44:18,000
spending your sunday evening or morning

2929
01:44:23,750 --> 01:44:21,040
with us i really do appreciate it and um

2930
01:44:25,910 --> 01:44:23,760
stay tuned for our interview with avilo

2931
01:44:27,910 --> 01:44:25,920
coming to you on the 14th that will be a

2932
01:44:29,430 --> 01:44:27,920
live stream we hope you'll join us as

2933
01:44:31,430 --> 01:44:29,440
well for that there'll be links to that

2934
01:44:33,830 --> 01:44:31,440
on twitter and in the show notes and

2935
01:44:36,709 --> 01:44:33,840
other than that as usual keep your feet

2936
01:44:38,550 --> 01:44:36,719
on the ground but never stop searching

2937
01:44:40,709 --> 01:44:38,560
somewhere in the skies have a great

2938
01:44:44,629 --> 01:44:40,719
night guys we'll talk soon keep looking

2939
01:44:50,070 --> 01:44:46,790
hey guys ryan here the summer in the

2940
01:44:52,229 --> 01:44:50,080
skies podcast is a labor of love every

2941
01:44:54,709 --> 01:44:52,239
week and with that comes many different

2942
01:44:57,350 --> 01:44:54,719
costs to keep the show running that's

2943
01:44:59,510 --> 01:44:57,360
where our patreon campaign comes in you

2944
01:45:01,830 --> 01:44:59,520
give what you think the show is worth

2945
01:45:03,750 --> 01:45:01,840
there's different rewards available all

2946
01:45:06,310 --> 01:45:03,760
the time including shout outs on the

2947
01:45:09,030 --> 01:45:06,320
show early editions of main episodes

2948
01:45:11,590 --> 01:45:09,040
bonus episodes and content and very soon

2949
01:45:14,870 --> 01:45:11,600
monthly patron hangouts where we sit

2950
01:45:16,629 --> 01:45:14,880
back and chat all things ufos so i hope

2951
01:45:19,189 --> 01:45:16,639
you'll consider becoming a patreon

2952
01:45:20,590 --> 01:45:19,199
subscriber today to learn more and to

2953
01:45:22,470 --> 01:45:20,600
join visit

2954
01:45:24,709 --> 01:45:22,480
patreon.com